The Director's Chair Network

heat heat
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[Music] good day and welcome to another episode
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of the Director's Chair Network this is the season where we're covering Michael
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Man i am your host Ryan and with me today I have not for this season yet but
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a returning co-host of the Edwick show where Katie came on three episodes and
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Katie is now joining the network at least for one season as she covers John
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Hughes films katie welcome to the show i'm very excited to be on Michael Man's
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season so thank you for having me yeah it's been so much fun at the time of this recording I'm almost done editing
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the third film Manhunter that's a great discussion so that'll be out probably again at the time of this recording
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behind the curtain probably today so you'll get to listen to it very shortly Katie if you so desire and I hope our
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listeners at the time of this listening enjoyed that coverage of Manhunter and so far our journey with the Michael Man
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films which have been pretty stellar thus far we are diving into The Last of
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the Moheakans this is the film that I've mentioned already a few times the first few episodes but if you're listening to this for the first time because you're
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just a Moheakans fan you're like "Hey I want to hear two people talk about my one of my favorite films." As you might
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be saying to yourself you've come to the right place but this is the film that got me interested and curious about who
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is this guy that directed one of my favorite films of all time katie this
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was your first time I believe is what you said this is your first time watching this film in preparation for this episode that's true i when I told
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you that I thought "Oh I wonder if maybe I saw it and I just didn't remember it." But no I have not seen this yeah that's
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I have so many questions i I want to make sure we do a little bit first before we just get into your overall thoughts okay so this is your first time
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watching how did you manage not seeing this film at all i
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don't get it i don't understand yeah I know here's how I think it was this came
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out in 92 i'm 11 so this kind of movie
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it was probably what it's radar right it's it's radar for sure yeah yeah so I
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don't know i if I It wasn't something that an 11-year-old girl was clamoring to go see and then
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I just never revisited it it wasn't one that I when it came out on video again like Last of the Moheakans wasn't didn't
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seem like something I was going to see and my parents must not have seen it cuz I do remember seeing Robin Hood Prince
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of Thieves which maybe was around the same time and it's it seems kind of like a similar type of movie from an
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11-year-old's perspective but my so I watched that probably just cuz my parents did so I don't know a little bit
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more family friendly kevin Coer's Prince of Thieves and I saw that in the theaters as well okay this era of film I
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would say between 80 89 to like
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99 2002 but definitely but 92 93 94 1990 to95
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both with almost like music and movies yes granted I was a teenager I get it I understand that but from my favorite
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westerns were like Tombstone the young guns films came out this window and then you had films like you know Braveheart
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and and Last Moheakans and these sweeping even Gladiator was 2000 right
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so was it okay yeah so there is a sweet spot of these epic films and I Legends of the Fall i
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mean I could just go on i mean I'm a couple i was thinking Dances with Wolves was more similar to this like epic-wise
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and I did see that i did see Dances with Wolves and that's a great again another
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sweeping epic films yeah I love this era film so I guess it might have just been
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an era film we don't get quite that today though we get wonderful films today i've mentioned before I love the
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Dune films that's very reminiscent of these big sweeping epics even though it's a sci-fi film it's it has that same
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feeling of sweeping score and beautiful shots and cinematography which I love last Moheakans I just Okay I watched it
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again of course for the eenth time with my kids they haven't seen the film of course we watched it a couple nights ago
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they loved it and it's really great to see kids their 10-year-old twins boy and girl and then my 13-year-old son the
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last three so the youngest three watched it with me and I'm always like "Oh are they going to So at the very beginning
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of the film if those are of course are familiar with the film there's a lot of world building the geopolitics of course
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the history of the American French wars with of course with the victims of course being the Native Americans but
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how the Native Americans played both sides as well one for their own interests and it's a very interesting
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part of and terrible part of history of course is this whole land and war and bloodshed the
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beginning of the film was about a lot of politics so I actually paused the film with my kids and I said to them said there's a lot going on here there is
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even for me who's seen the film many times and I by no means am I a history
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buff but I've seen so many films and done so so much history just over my half a century of life that I kind of
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get what's going on and I know where this is in the world events but even I get sort of lost like who's who in the
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zoo so I told him don't worry so much about what's going on i give them a very brief like this is you know
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pre-independence signing this is America's still figuring it out like we don't know who's going to quote unquote own America just yet and they're
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fighting over the land and that's all you need to know british French they don't like each other and you're going to see life as it really was back then
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and but the story is going to very quickly the story will focus on a
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situation so we're just building right now don't worry about who all these people are but you'll see very shortly
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it's going to focus on people and they were good they were fine but I got a little bit of a sense like there's a lot like I don't know what they're following
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here i saw this movie for the first time in the theaters i was I'm older than you by 6 years obviously I was 17 so I'm
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already fully invested in films i've loved films forever but at 17 this was my internet this was my video games or
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whatever was films and I was a film nerd really really again I had no idea who Michael Man was i had no idea i didn't
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even know who Daniel D Lewis was i didn't know him as an actor even though he done My Left Foot and so I a I become
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a fan of his now because of this film and Michael Man yeah I was swept away by this film the love the cinematography
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the score and over the years has always been a favorite but Katie I got to ask you I know I built it up too much before
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I gave it to you to watch did you like the film i liked it i didn't I did not
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love it as I was watching it last night with my kids or two nights ago with my kids I was objectively watching it
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through your eyes because I've known you over the Yeah yeah yeah so there's a part of me that was watching it with Katie goggles and I was getting worried
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mhm listening to you say that you paused it and had to kind of tell your kids what lens to watch it through i feel
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like I needed that a little bit because this movie maybe would get better for me with repeat watchings because there I
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was confus like I was it took a lot i was really trying to pay attention and
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then I admittedly kept falling asleep and so I was like struggling not because
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it was boring it was just I understand I was just tired and that's fair you're allowed to be tired you're a human
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sometimes like the darkness dark dramas and things like set puts your I don't know for me anyway
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it like puts me to sleep also I was like "God there's a lot going on." And I feel
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like I felt like that the first time I watched The Godfather for example or whichever one it was and I was like "Oh
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there's a lot of characters there's a lot of backstabbing there's a lot of little things that I'm I think I was
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maybe trying to understand that and it maybe took me away from the the
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overarching like message of the movie i mean I obviously got it and I did I did really I mean Daniel D lewis I loved him
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he and Maline St there were a lot of really good things the actors were phenomenal i thought it's just honestly
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by the time it ended I was like "Oh that's the end." Like it was a little antilimactic
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I think for me because there was there's too much fighting maybe i'm like another another battle it was just too much
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i I because it wasn't different i was just like "Oh we got to get through this and then they're going to go a little bit further and then they're going to do
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that again and then they're going to do that again." So okay all right well
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everyone thanks for joining us on episode of Last of Katie well I'm going to carry the That's okay listen I
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already know there's somebody coming on our Heat discussion for teaser heat is actually the next film if you can believe it in our series so Heat will
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actually be broken up into five parts and I love Heat and I know you do and I
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do too but I am a sucker well let me get back to Heat so The Heat will have five different hosts with me five different
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parts and it's going to go in chronological order so when I have host number one on three-hour movie so we're
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going to divide it up into five parts so whatever guest spot you're on that's the film part you're going to cover mhm okay
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so you can only speak about whatever is in that part of the film so we don't borrow listeners so it's going to be one
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big mega coverage of the film but yes you know the the host will get to say this is what I think of the film
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overall but dot dot dot Craig brought up a great idea craig of course does the
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Brian Deal Palma on the network he suggested that each host should still be able to share their thoughts recorded
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separate from their part as a bonus segment at the end of the shootout scene at the end cuz he said it's not it's not
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fair that people don't get to share yeah yeah and I say that because this film is
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for me is the ending can I clarify what I mean by Oh that's the end the very
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very final scene like I liked I really did enjoy the actual like end sequence
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it's just the final Well here's the thing i think it's just postcoidus i'm not trying to be crass
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i'm really not i'm just trying to something i'm trying to think of something or a meal the Christmas dinner
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that you've looked forward to you've watched it being prepared i'll be less crashed unless we have a young listeners we're all adults here but the point is
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you know Christmas dinner it's all being prepped in the kitchen you smell it all day you can't wait to eat it you dive in
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it's amazing it's great and then you're like you know you can't even think about
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having another bite the thing about this film the ending to this film yes of course we all know it the score the
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We'll get to the scenes as we talk about the different actors i think it's the best time to talk about these the ending with different actors how they played
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their part in that final part it's probably the best way this ending sequence is the heat ending meaning everybody looks
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forward to the street battle gun battle and heat the sound the effects that
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feels raw and real this is the the 180 this is beautiful and I'm not even going
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to lie to you or the audience i watched it again with my kids and I was crying now I wasn't balling but if they were to
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look at me look at the they were watching the screen no one was looking at me but I had my eyes were red and I
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was like fighting back tears i get so freaking moved watching and listening to
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that musical score cue and the deaths that happened the revenge of a father again I'm a parent so I can't help but
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put myself in the in the position of the father of what I would do to this freaking guy killing my son in front of
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me the and the revenge the guy gets is it's just the way it plays out so yes when Magwa hits the rock dead there's a
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part of me that's oh it ends and you don't want it to end that's what I'm getting at i think that's what I'm It's
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such a powerful ending and so moving and so beautifully shot and the score and the acting the energy the slow motion
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all that stuff the the different shots i could just break down that whole scene i could do a whole episode on that final
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scene i very much liked the final sequence okay it was like But then when
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the father and son were on the rock at the end I I don't know i don't know what I I don't know what I expected but I was
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like "Oh it's Oh the credits are rolling." Okay and I I don't know how you end it my long way of saying I guess
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we just put our clothes on and the money's on and the money's on the dresser i don't like I don't know had a
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good time we had a good time it was good but I guess I got to go home now to my to my misses i don't know but I I don't
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know how you end this film beautifully because that is such a beautiful ending and maybe that would be another thought
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experiment how do you Well I thought there would be something with the couple for you know Maline Stow
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and Daniel D happily ever after maybe like they're on a homestead raising kids or I mean I don't know i don't know just
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cuz she wasn't even in the final shot she is was she okay yeah yeah no she's
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there she Yeah she's there so I the pronunciation of the characters names is I'm going to be holding the dad's name
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is really hard to say it is hard to say i'm just going to chak
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yeah that's a hard that's hard to say his his real name is much easier russell Russell yeah and honestly here here's
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something I will for be I continue to say Daniel J lewis because I'm like what's his name in this i feel like
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Nathaniel that's what I thought but then he's listed as Hawkeye i'm like I his
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nickname i feel like they never say that well no it's both i've seen this movie so many times i can answer these
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questions for you so Hawkeye is his He's adopted so you caught that yes he's adopted i'm glad that I'm glad that that
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happened because we don't learn that for a little while you thought he was culturally appropriating his Yes at first when I started watching this I was
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like "Oh they did not cast Daniel D lewis." I thought I should just say "Oh
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sorry you're literally okay that's something they would have done that's something they would have done in the
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90s and since I hadn't seen that I was like "Oh [ __ ] they did not he's not supposed to be Native American is he?"
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And then thank God they tell us that he's adopted i had never even considered
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that because when I saw this in the '9s you know and I'm not insulting you i don't mean this mean this is an insult i
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didn't even consider that then what I thought at the time was is that he like
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Kevin Ker's character in Dance with Wolves so maybe I was more prepared for this kind of thinking that he had inserted himself into the society that
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he had just considered himself a part of the crew so he's wearing the gang colors it wasn't that he he just liked their
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lifestyle and he he was like even though he was American born and bred at that time whatever um that he I like how he
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had neither a French nor an English accent it doesn't matter but anyway so he he he already had an American accent
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i don't know yeah I just love that but that being said he I just thought he was just these were his he identified with
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this culture and he was just embraced by them as much as he embraced them i didn't consider it appropriation as we
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would say today so even back in 1992 is what I'm saying i I just thought oh he's chill with them but then oh he's adopted by them i see he was raised by these I
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guess I was prepared for you know some shady [ __ ] from the 80s and 90s when they did would cast white people to play
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a They did not They were better at it even in the 90s however they did make
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this film in 1936 the same film same storyline same plot did you know that this film was already made i'm curious
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about that because I did see it was based on a book that was written a long time ago but I couldn't remember the
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book was written be even before then right yeah it was written before the 1930s
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it's an old timey book i don't know exactly a better podcast would have the actual date that the book was written i
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guess I right click on this right now and I'll tell you the book was written in 1826 that's what I I remember seeing
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that when I was you know wherever they showed that in the credits and I was like "Oh interesting." Okay so it's a
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part of a pentology like it's the second book in the leather stocking tales
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oh interesting yeah so this character Hawkeye I believe is kind of like a early version he's like the like a Conan
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Conan the Barbarian type character he's in these books and all the names of the books they kept now
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granted they did change the name from the book his name in the book was Natty
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short for Nathaniel but they called him Natty Bumpo and they didn't want to name him Natty Bumpo in this film 1992 that's
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too They're like "No we'll just call him Nathaniel." But his name was his name in the book was Hawkeye as well that was
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due to his mark that's why he was so good at shooting so that's why he's called Hawkeye because he's such a good
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shot with the weapons of both rifle and bow and arrow also I'm so dumb that I
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was like "Oh they had guns back then did they?" Yes
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one shot weapons but yeah they did yeah they were just one shot weapons yeah so that's why when he 1757 so I was like
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"Oh wow." Yeah okay yeah yeah it's it is amazing how long we've been killing each
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other with guns the other thing that I my brain gets
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logged down in like logistical things and so that's a me problem i was like
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"Oh it took me a while to realize the different Indian
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tribes fighting against each other in the midst of this." But like in the
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context of this particular war because they called it the French Indian War
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and so Mwa he says he's Mohawk and it took me
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but he's not he's Hiron we learn later which is so somehow the English are
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cozied up with the Mohawks and the French are cozied up
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with the Huron is that right yeah yeah well I forget the tribe yes you're right
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he's he is Magoa is a heron you're right but he pretends to be because he it's
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like he's a mole on in at first right did I get that right yeah his whole goal
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is just revenge for the Whitmore and his children and that I just love of course
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we'll get well actually we'll get to the actress we'll get when we talk about the actors we'll talk about their specific scenes that we might have enjoyed or not
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enjoyed you can let let us let us let us know your thoughts there Katie of course i just wanted to finish my thought on
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that the different Indian tribes and that's what they called them so apologies i think what do you call it
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now though nations native Native American or what do you call the different sects
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is it do you still say tribes in in the states cuz we say different up here i don't think we say that in Canada like I
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know we have different even America have different um terminologies for their we
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call them first nations people for example yeah yeah or Aboriginals or First Nations oh Aboriginal i thought
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that was just Australia okay yeah no it's so it might be a Commonwealth word maybe oh yeah maybe well I don't know
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maybe I honestly you don't really hear it very often you hear it in the context of
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history and so it was called a tri like different so in 1757 I guess I was sort
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of like oh how do how do all of these like Europeans like the English and the
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French how do they know the difference they learned by geographic location just
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like they had their own not boundaries but and that the the way that they're
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the way they're dressed definitely yeah they dress differently they Yeah I knew that but I I guess I was kind of
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surprised by that because I'm thinking I guess there were that that's bad on me
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i was like assuming the worst of of the white
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people in the movie I guess oh no yeah and I like this isn't I'm not whitewashing history i don't know
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history very well but yeah I say I don't know it wasn't like the white man just came in and said "We're going to kill
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everyone." Like I know that's sometimes how it appears but the long story short and little I know is that of course
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there was already fighting like the Native Americans and of course first nations people in C there was already
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tribal warfare there was they didn't have they didn't have a axes just to cut
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meat they fought each other yeah i mean ultimately everybody was fighting for land and whoever they could make
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alliances with they would and vice versa right yeah and then everyone betrayed this and betrayed it was it was a gong
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show it was messy ugly and brutal on all counts for all terrible reason but it
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doesn't mean everyone was evil too i mean it just got messy and weird and ugly but then there's people like Hawkeye and his adopted family who were
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good and pure and had good hearts but I assume there were people like that i can't imagine everyone was just right
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selfish and ugly but it you know the world unfortunately humans just have this weird nature of just being humans
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whether it's the 1700s or 2025 ugliness exists in humans but so does beauty and
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I I I think that's what I love about this film is there's there are some brutal terrible moments but around that
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there's some really beautiful amazing human moments so it just has that that
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clash of nature that we see you love and sacrifice of course
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overall you were okay with the film you didn't hate it maybe it came in i might have I might have lifted it up too high
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which is fair but I I want to be clear and I'm not offering apologies to you i'm just saying I want to be clear this
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this movie will always have of course nostalgic plays a big part cuz it came out during the time of films that I just
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love this era of film you know the brave hearts the dance with wolves the this film the sweet glory legends of the fall
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the sweeping epic the cinematography the love the the betrayal the heartache i just love these i like
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movies that make me cry I think is what I really do i like movies that move me so I just wanted to look up I agree cuz
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we covered Legends of the Fall together yes i enjoyed that far more than this i
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didn't dis like I did like this movie and so I was looking it's got a 7.6 on
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IMDb last of the Moheakans has a 7.6 that's fair that's fair and Legends has
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a 7.5 so they're essentially the same but I I
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found Legends of the Fall to be far superior if you're going to compare the two Sure yeah but this is this is
23:14
Legends this is Michael Man's Legends it is and I think Legends did it better
23:19
yeah i I I would have a hard time picking meaning because Legends doesn't make me cry like this one does and
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that's a big part i actually feel real like that cuz that ending sequence it's such a powerful 10 minutes of film i
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think it's whereas Legends has a lot of great sweeping epic moment you know just with Tristan riding his horse and and
23:39
the girl runs to chase him you know as he rides away there's so many great moments in that film that equal like
23:46
that little moment that little boom i think I cried during when when the brother dies and he couldn't Brad Pitt
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couldn't save him yeah i don't know if I I felt it i felt emotion i guess I felt
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I felt more emotion in Legends and I think from an enjoyment perspective it
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passes a lot of time there was more the scenes were more differing yep meaning
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oh that's fair yeah no I got you i know what you mean that c that kept my attention or something and I do easily
24:16
get bored with when there's I don't mind fighting and I don't mind war in a movie
24:22
but if the battle scene is more or less the same in every scene like it's not
24:27
vastly different I have a hard time with I think that's I think that's maybe what
24:32
it was cuz I even will say like the not on the same par at all but Roadhouse I
24:38
think that's part of why Roadhouse all the fights there was it was like fight fight fight but they were all different
24:45
fights no that's again it's a fair argument i I know what you're saying i can't disagree with what No don't don't
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don't just anyway though that's great i like it i want to hear it i've never thought I'd ever have
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Roadhouse it's probably the first time in podcast history but yeah I can see I I think this movie
25:07
might warrant a another viewing i think that's what you need you're I think you're probably right because I know for
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me I have grown to love it more the more I see it like I suspect I love it more
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now than I did in 1992 i do get that from this movie oh there's there's a lot going on there is a lot
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going on and so you can focus on different things once you kind of understand the lay of the land the second time yeah I think that helps yeah
25:31
let's get into the character this is great i hope people are okay with our pre character or actor banter because
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this is the big part of the show of course is when we talk about each actor that we again I always go by the rule of
25:44
do I know the face or the name without having to Google who they are and we kind of talk about them so there's a
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couple of names or faces I should say that popped up because I haven't seen this movie in a spell like it's been
25:55
it's been a spell since I've seen the film since other shows have come out for example right
26:02
away Jared Harris which I totally recognize as an actor now he played
26:07
almost like an unnamed soldier at the very beginning he was the British soldier at the very beginning of the film kind of yelling at the the village
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saying "Come on are you guys going to fight with us or what what's your deal?" His Majesty King George II is very
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grateful for your support how far up the valley up to Fort William Henry france is our enemy france is your enemy for
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your homes for king for country that's why you men ought to join this fight you
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call yourself a patriot and loyal subject to the crown he's in Mad Men
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that's the big role that I knew him from was Mad Men did you ever watch that show Mad Men this the with John Mad Men yes
26:44
yes am I saying it Canadian wise i apologize mad men yeah jared Harris why
26:49
don't I see him oh as British Lieutenant oh yes yeah okay so the moment of course
26:56
this was 35 year or 33 years ago so he's much younger here but the moment he started talking and I saw his face holy
27:02
smokes that's the guy from Mad Men and spoiler alert he kills himself in Mad Men oh wow that was that was quite the
27:10
spoiler that came out of nowhere that was unnecessary the show is from I don't know 15 years ago why don't you just
27:16
tell them how he did it he hung himself right tell us why
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anyways if you still want to see the show it's a it's a great TV i love Mad Men and it was great it's a fantastic
27:29
show but yeah good eye good eye on Yeah so the Oh he's in this film so it's kind of cool to see these This has happened
27:36
with a few of the Michael Man films where you're seeing these of course there was 30 odd years ago right you're seeing actors that are more established
27:42
today 30 years later but they're earlier roles right okay so that was the first one that came up so not much more to say
27:48
great actor he was in that he was also in another show I saw on the sci-fi show called The Expanse he was good in that
27:55
did some roles in that and but for He's got a lot of award nominations very accomplished great actor yeah okay so
28:02
that was one then the next one that came up was Oh he's in this now this is Blinky if
28:08
you miss it I see him in the credits but I don't know where he was in the film that was a calm meanie which I know very
28:14
well from Star Trek of course if you're a Star Trek fan he was played Miles O'Brien in the Star Trek TV shows and
28:20
Deep Space 9 and in Next Generation i I blink if you'll miss him i'll have to Google his where he was i don't think he
28:28
even has speaking part but he's credited yeah and I don't watch those but he is Let's see what do I know him from well
28:34
he was in Peaky Blinders wasn't he yeah that's it that must be it okay oh he's
28:40
he's Irish so he's in a lot of that kind of layer cake oh yeah great film mhm oh
28:49
he's a one of those actors who's always going to have a job he's just one of those actors that just he shows up does
28:54
a good job he'll never be out of work and yeah but I don't know where he was in this film and I Yeah do you oh my
29:02
gosh well the they were all one and the same aside from the
29:07
dad basically like he was like really all the soldiers were interchangeable to
29:13
me now here's one where the name I know the name he died in 2011 i can't believe
29:19
it's been that long his name is Pete Aposawith now I recognize his face so
29:26
when they the scene where the French and English leaders captains or commanders
29:31
were talking treaty and retreat that whole sequence which I thought was a great sequence between those two actors
29:38
where they're talking about you know what they will do for the English to let them leave with their colors and they won't be prisoners anyways there was an
29:45
actor standing next to the father who's the the general or whatever and oh I
29:50
recognize that face like I recognize the face so I Googled the usual suspects
29:56
which I know he's in that movie and there he was the actor Pete Posway and yeah he was in Lasikas but again he
30:02
didn't really have a speaking part but another weirdly quite famous faced actor he is a very famous face and I'm kind of
30:09
looking like the town inception who is he in inception but I
30:14
have to check the other things because that's those are not that's not where I know him well the usual suspects he was
30:22
in he had a big role yeah but I can't really Maybe that's it it would have to be it that was a big role he played Mr
30:28
kobayashi that was a big role that But again I couldn't believe he's just
30:33
like standing next to the other guy during that treaty treaty talk or whatever i'm like "Oh that's odd he's
30:39
just standing there." What did you Did you have thoughts on the treaty talk oh
30:44
I love it do you recall Did do you recall what you first thought when you were watching it like the first time I
30:49
saw it in the theaters yeah cuz this was my first watching and I guess I was surprised i'm like "Oh this is very
30:58
gentlemanly." Yes no I'm not surprised i've seen a I guess I'm a bit of a I'm a
31:04
little bit of a history nerd cuz only because I love these films so I I learn a little bit about the Civil War that
31:09
kind of behavior there was so oddly this weird like good fight chap you know you
31:16
put up a good fight while we laid your men to waste yeah it was I I I think it was like that i think it was kind of
31:22
like you know hey back in the day Yeah there wasn't any like assassination attempts like you have the two enemies
31:27
it' be like I'm not going to mention any leaders today just to keep things apolitical but you'd have two waring
31:33
nations like literally talking to each other an open ground where one could just start shooting the other but they
31:39
don't there's an unwritten rule yeah we're talking no one's shooting yeah it was like their armies are behind them
31:44
and they're just like marching forward and I was like "Oh." And then they obviously just open fire they said "You
31:49
know what?" Exactly exactly and then and the French was so I think the English
31:55
guy even says "Thank you for being so generous like with our surrender." Yeah
32:01
he said "Well we don't we're not interested in just making you slaves in cages but and I like their I like the
32:07
the negotiation was great but you got to leave." like the idea don't come back to this land we kind of want it you know so
32:14
they won that battle as we know the French didn't win the war but they won that battle so what we need you to do is
32:19
just just you don't have to tuck your tail between your legs we're not even saying that take your weapons take your
32:25
weapons children but get out of here don't come back so that's basically a nice way of saying you lost you don't
32:31
have to die anymore so just but you got to leave yeah and it seems I mean obviously that's not what happened but
32:38
Well he didn't the French leader didn't want them to be slaughtered that was Magwa saying I know yeah yeah like hey
32:44
that's great you let them go but that's not my treaty and the French guy was like well I can't handle the natives
32:50
that's not my He could have warned them too but he's kind of whatever i just Well and the other French guy Bovia or
32:57
the French guy who was talking with Maguay Magwa mhm he was even sort of like I don't buy that they're just going
33:03
to go home he was kind of like scheming with Magwa i you know I have to obey the
33:08
orders of the surrender but I don't agree with it because I don't I don't
33:16
trust that they're going to go home i think we're going to end up battling these same people again if we don't do
33:22
something anyway so anyway I I very much took note of that because I was like wow
33:27
there was a lot of honor and trust involved that they will abide by their word so to speak that was it for names
33:35
until we get kind of near the top here which we'll start with of course Wes Study who plays Magwa and boy he has
33:43
made a career out of playing this and good for him look he's not Irish right
33:49
he's not German he's he's Native American so he's going to play a lot of these roles and his role in this film
33:56
boy he was good like he was good in this film what do you think i agree he he
34:03
once I figured out who he was like it took me a minute to be like oh wait what's happening and and then I
34:09
understood his character more obviously as we go on and we learn what happened to his family and why he wants revenge
34:14
he was great and he if you're casting like a native person in your movie he's
34:20
in it if you're casting a movie where there's a where there are prime roles for a native person he's he's going to
34:28
be up for it he was in Dances with Wolves as well who was he in Heat yeah
34:33
he's in Heat i don't remember him in Heat he plays a detective plays just a good oldfashioned detective nothing
34:39
Native American about it i mean he's Native American but he's he's on the police force yeah which man of course
34:44
yeah he's in Reservation Dogs i actually haven't seen that series but I assume he plays a Native person that's a you know
34:51
yeah i love it all of his titles he get some of these title literally the only good Indian it's a movie called The Only Good
34:58
Indian yeah he's done lots of great stuff now he was so good in this film
35:04
you probably don't recall this but again I was a bit of a film nerd but I
35:09
literally went to the theaters a year later to see him in the movie called Donimo An America Legend oh why does
35:16
that sound familiar who's in that him and Jason Patrick Robert Dal Jean
35:22
Hackman and I believe a young Matt Damon yeah yeah I have seen that movie but I
35:29
don't remember much from it so I saw this in the theaters and I would not have gone to this as much as I enjoyed
35:35
sure Jean Hackman sure but I'm 18 years old this time i'm not going to the movies to see a Gene Hackman film or a
35:42
Jason Patrick film i'm going because of whatever the film is about you know so the fact that I loved see this is how I
35:50
am with my films i'm very I'm very home team meaning if I follow people's careers because of certain films like
35:56
Kefir Sullivan because of Young Guns I mentioned that Christian Slater because of Young Guns Amelio from if you're in one of my favorite films I will follow
36:01
your career like a home team and so I love Makin so much and Wes said he's
36:07
performance in it that I went to the theaters to see his starring movie essentially called Donalo where he plays
36:13
the the famous historical figure Donimo oh he's Dono okay that would track Katie
36:20
come on get with the program i know Matt Matt Matt David plays Gono well I didn't know if there was another native person
36:27
in you know because I'm sure there were plenty of native people in the movie Gonimo and maybe he was one of those but
36:33
it's really great he got his own This was a big deal for him to get this yeah
36:38
so anyways great film by the way and I think it's one worth actually I haven't seen in a while yeah and it would be
36:43
nice to see another one with Gene Hackman Robert Deval together in a film together i I probably haven't seen it
36:49
honestly since I saw it in the theater but I did see it in the theater old the same okay so yeah Wes great job he again
36:55
he went on to do Heat with Michael Man but I believe quick scouring here i think that was his last Michael Man
37:01
collaboration he went he worked with James Cameron and Avatar he's still
37:06
working today he's got two films coming out in 2026 alone so he's very busy at
37:12
the age of 77 he's still punching the clock good for him yeah I like it okay
37:18
yeah and I Oh let's talk well let me just say so the scenes that were great that he did I mean the whole ending
37:24
sequence when he's talking to his leader about you know trying to pawn off the daughters and you know you let's burn
37:30
her let's I'll marry the other one and that whole conversation he's having what I love too about the Magwa character
37:36
that he's intelligent he might be bad or has his own Okay that's the thing he's not evil in the sense of this is what I
37:43
mean by it's complicated mhm his revenge is pure he wants to kill the daughters
37:49
and the father because of what they did to his family and his army killed his family mhm this is war this is This is
37:55
what I mean it's like war breeds hatred breeds war like it's just a circular white man came killed his family now
38:02
he's going to have You know it reminds me of Young Guns have you seen Young Guns yes but I don't remember anything
38:09
from it i'd have to rewatch it yeah I'm such a nerd i One of these days I will cover these films proper folks if you
38:14
care so there's a scene where Billy the kid is talking to Lock
38:20
sorry Lock that's his name the Lost character yeah ter Quinn plays Lock and and we're
38:26
watching Lost i'm watching Lost with my kids right now so it's in my brain anyways so he's talking to his character
38:32
in the film i forget his name in the film but escapes you right now but anyways he's telling him like "You you
38:37
know you can't stay in this house because they're going to kill you." This is what Billy the Kid says they're going to come kill you cuz he likes this guy
38:44
and if they kill you he says "Now I'm going to have to kill all the people that killed you that's just a lot of killing." And that's what Billy Kiss so
38:51
even he recognizes you get killed I got to kill the people that killed you and that's just a lot of killing that's basically West Studies BWA is I got to
38:58
kill the people that killed my people and it's just a lot of killing but anyways I it just reminds me of that's war in this time is revenge he only
39:06
wants revenge of of his family's death and when he kills the daughter's father
39:11
I just that scene is so cool
39:16
gray hair before you die know that I will put under the knife your children
39:21
so I will wipe your seat from the earth forever i didn't realize that's I thought he was
39:27
going to scalp him no he said he was going to eat the heart i know i'm surprised they didn't show that i'm surprised they didn't show it but they I
39:33
guess they spared us the actual scene of him eating the heart i'm sure that was done after the camera panned away i kind
39:38
of wish they did it but but you what got me was he did it while he was He just
39:44
cut it open while the man was alive he didn't kill him first that's that's what
39:50
got me i was like well he killed him first by opening up his chest cavity and taking the heart out and he died but but
39:56
you know what I mean you can see him i'm like "Oh my god." I mean that's I think that's what it is though you're right
40:02
it's It's revenge but he's doing it in such a vicious way even after the dad is killed
40:08
though he really wanted the dad to witness the daughters being killed first
40:13
but that that wasn't couldn't have that's not what happened and so after the dad after he kills the dad
40:21
why would he you know burn alive that couldn't he just killed her without it being painful why would he want to
40:28
That's what I mean he is evil because he goes the extra mile yeah and I guess
40:34
it's just that's what means fair play it's just not enough it's just fair play and you're right the good people in this
40:41
film are merciful and the the bad ones aren't and that's just the human nature of things so it is unfortunate that he
40:47
is the victim of the war on his family but you're right would I even do that i
40:53
doubt it even me even I if my family was slaughtered by and I had that I probably wouldn't cut their heart out and pull it
40:59
out you know I might That's the thing revenge is interesting everyone does it heal you to do that are you healed like
41:08
well that's what I mean he's he's be he's going beyond
41:13
you know the level of effort that's required for not required but for for revenge and so you know in your heart he
41:19
he kind of likes it he's he's getting some joy out of it yeah let me be clear listen I get comments and the the emails
41:26
flood in he is a he is actually a a bad dude and I'll get to another scene that
41:31
shows this yeah but what I love about the heart ripping out scene too of course the violence is kind of done offcreen which is kind of interesting
41:38
like we don't we just see we hear the squaltching the ripping but we don't see any real like throats being cut or
41:46
anything even though we know it's happening which is it's oddly I would say it's more brutal but
41:52
there's this weird because you are creating the image in your head now I've got to come up with what it looks like
41:57
well that's the whole idea why not seeing Jaws is scarier than seeing Jaws yeah right and I think they had to I
42:04
think they did it too they may have filmed it i don't know i didn't My research didn't show they may have filmed it but they just cuz all they
42:10
have to do is just lift up the screen okay we're not going to show it i think they I think that was purposeful because
42:15
even even the scenes where there could be a lot more brutality shown like when
42:22
they show some scalpings but it's from far away it's never like a closeup you know what I mean oh yeah so one part of
42:30
that scene I liked I don't know why this is multiple views you're getting the listeners you're getting the Ryan
42:36
treatment of multiple views is when he's doing that I love how his people his soldiers or his warriors I should say
42:43
are s I love how they surround him and they're looking outward they're not watching this happen because they're waiting you know they're protecting
42:49
their leader from anyone interrupting this revenge kill it's such a great little moment i I just like that there's
42:55
five or six of his lawyers around him and they're all like pointing outwards like this kill allowing it yeah is going
43:03
to happen no one's going to stop this kill from happening now back to Amaga as a character being evil so of course what
43:10
I thought was one of the best sequences in the film it's very subtle but of course when the young girl the sister
43:17
Alice when when she jumps you know to be with her short time you know
43:23
crush into the rock which is of course one of the most heartbreaking moments of the film when she would rather die on
43:30
her own terms than be a a slave or sex slave essentially cuz she was going to
43:35
be his wife sure that's going to go over well right she's no cool thanks for the offer but no when he when one scene I
43:43
really love of course is when Maga was doing that motion with his hand now he speaks English he speaks English but what I love is
43:50
that he doesn't even say to her "Hey come on come off the cliff." He doesn't even talk to her it it's beneath him to
43:56
even speak to this animal he It's the way you would beckon a dog to come to you so he's no emotion
44:03
on his face cuz he could have said "Hey get away from that cliff what are you doing?" He doesn't try to He doesn't literally He doesn't try to talk her off
44:10
a literal ledge he just says like a motion of his hand what are you doing like with his hand and then when she
44:16
jumps the way he just turns away like a rabbit may have fallen off the cliff and
44:22
just continues walking on not even a like oh shoot or oh or reach out to grab
44:28
or nothing he just turns his sauna away the way you would if you stepped on a bug it's just an amazing little sequence
44:36
to show you just how callous and cold he is just another death in his wake
44:42
yeah he didn't care he I'm actually surprised he even did the hand gesture cuz he didn't care whether she did that
44:48
or not and yeah we'll get to the actress yeah the the playser i did a little bit of research on her which I've actually
44:54
never done till this podcast which I'm surprised anyways yeah I so Wes so bra this is my way of saying bravo to Wes
45:00
all those sequences he did yeah amazing no he Yeah he was really good
45:05
were you Alice yeah let's talk we don't want to talk about her now that's fine well there wasn't I guess my this is
45:14
say she was nothing like she she was she had no she talked in the beginning i
45:20
can't wait to go on an adventure she could might as well have been a stick person i mean there was nothing for her
45:26
you see on the eyes I think is what it was she was cute now i didn't realize how young she actually was so she's actually my age
45:33
she didn't stand out to me in any way like Meline was the beauty well she is definitely the beauty now i mean Maline
45:39
Stow we'll get to her but just just I'm partial to blondes too I guess but the point is I'm I'm a I'm a young teen you
45:47
know so Maline Stow probably seemed even for me a little bit older for But that being said I'm I was like has she done
45:53
anything since this film i was actually kind of curious her name is Jodie May she's from London herself so her accent
45:59
was real in the film she's from England this is one of her first films and she was a minor she was like my like I said
46:05
she was my age so she was 17 if not 16 during the filming of this film her mom was actually on the set i guess there
46:12
was going to supposed to be a love scene or something that the mom kind of nixed oh with the brother with um what's his
46:18
face uncas the closest yeah the closest they got was when he pulled her off the the waterfall ledge so there you go that
46:24
shows you the difference so the he pulls her off the ledge to not jump off the waterfall ledge and they hold he holds
46:30
her and she allows him to be held by her and that's the closest we get to any kind of quitus between those two it's
46:35
funny when Maline Stow and Doo had their very very PG kit scene i made the comment to my kids because I always get
46:42
a little uncomfortable during those kind of scenes in films with my kids i just said "Oh looks like they like each other." My son's like "My 10-year-old no
46:47
I think they hate each other." You know there was it was pretty tame but you
46:52
could tell that had the camera lingered longer we would have seen fullblown kitas that night but she keeps she keeps
46:58
working she's she's as of recently Jodie she was in the Dune Prophecy TV series
47:04
okay so she's been working ever since she has always had a job but if I asked
47:10
a hundred people nay a thousand people on the street what's your favorite Jodie May film or role nobody would know who
47:16
I'm talking about no and I don't think it was her fault i just because I did think very highly of this cast mhm she
47:24
stood out as not being very good and just just not not necessarily not being good but just being like so why are you
47:32
even here kind of that's the story there's two sisters even the original film there's two sisters in the story
47:37
there's two sisters so she's the she's the secondary younger sister you're right and I I don't disagree with you
47:43
and I've said this about Edwick and I don't think Michael Mann's as good at this
47:49
yes i think I funny enough I think if Edwick directed this film we'd have a much more fleshed out version of this i
47:55
don't know and Ed would have been able to do it in the same amount amount of run time and so that was something that Ed was very good at was you you knew
48:03
every character so as good as Mago was and Daniel D Lewis and and Maline Stow's
48:10
character it does seem odd there was a few others like who are I don't what is your rel who Yeah so she should have
48:17
been more she was there the whole physical journey we should have had more of her if anything she was there just so
48:23
that Meline's character could be concerned about her yeah it's a too much of a plot device she had Yeah okay so
48:31
but other than that lovely girl she's had a full career so good for her she's had a career her whole life she's been
48:38
acting i guess she has that perfect job where she gets to act in films and TV and she gets to go shopping nobody stops
48:44
her nobody yeah that's that is ideal that's not bad that's actually not a bad way to go nobody bugs you but you're
48:50
always on film sets and TV cruise and nobody stops you that's not bad okay so let's get into this Eric Schwe guy he's
48:58
the one that plays I guess Nathaniel's I guess you could say stepbrother or foster brother interesting enough they
49:04
both went to English school um the dad mentions that he sent them to English school so that's how Eric sorry Eric
49:09
class that's how he knows English and is able to speak with Nathaniel his career has been going pretty good pretty steady
49:14
same idea films like you would expect Into the West Bur My Heart a wounded
49:20
knee i mean you know he's going to do that kind of stuff he was in Longmire he's done guest spots films just kind of
49:26
a steady Eddie in work nothing crazy but in 93 just after this film came out he
49:31
was listed fifth on People's Magazine for the 50 most beautiful people
49:37
really this actor I did think he was attractive but I was going to say did you not find him handsome or I'm going
49:43
to have to look again to see other photos he's from my neck of the woods he's actually from Canada Northwest
49:49
Territories he's seven years older than me and he has he himself has two foster children there you go good for him well
49:55
they Daniel D lewis was adopted so they're brothers just not by That's
50:00
right i said step brothers you're right they're not blood brothers my apologies they were they were blood as close as brothers could be of course you're right
50:07
they were brothers yeah yeah yeah he has You know what it is it's his bone
50:12
structure i'm Here we go folks big on bone structure because I'm I'm Yeah he
50:18
he is he's got he's got like a perfect nose really nice cheekbones that strong
50:24
jaw eyebrow he He is very handsome mhm yeah he is a good-look guy i mean not
50:30
anymore he's old now just It happens It happens to us all it happens to us all
50:36
it doesn't matter who you're No old people are just as beautiful and wonderful it just happens to us all but
50:42
yeah he was a good good-look guy and he did that role what did you think of his role as the as the son of the last
50:49
Moakin he didn't say a whole lot did he he did
50:54
he said you know it's funny he almost said more than I remember certainly says more than Alice that's for sure he did i
51:01
mean I did and And not that you have to have lines necessarily to for us to like
51:07
you as a character or for you to do a good acting job i I I remember you know I just watched it but I liked him a lot
51:16
and so maybe that's the directing he just his aura and his non-verbal everything i
51:25
just we I got that he was a good-hearted person yes oh yeah that's a good way to put No I agree no I like that he didn't
51:31
have to spell it out he just Okay so yeah Eric's doing well he's like I said he's got a family he's chilling he
51:38
probably still lives in Canada I would presume so fellow Canadian all right now we're going to get to before Well
51:43
actually we'll get to the dad in the film that was played by Russell Means much easier name to pronounce he played
51:48
the character though Chingga Chinak boy it's they said it a couple times but
51:57
they said it very well in the film and I can't repeat it the way they but I'm sure if we practice Oh I think Yeah I
52:04
don't know it's hard it's very hard to pronounce we'll we'll stop it there in case we sound like we're trying to make
52:10
a the voice like I'm not me but it's almost like you have to do the accent to pronounce it it is because the the way
52:16
the consonants go together is not how like Americans would No or Canadian or
52:22
Canadian yeah us whiteies is what we But his name's Russell so that's easier
52:28
his name's Russell yeah what's funny Katie this was his first film
52:35
really a yeah means this he came out shoot he was
52:41
amazing in this film his okay so again the end sequence with him when his son
52:48
gets killed and he's running through the rock crevice with his weapons in hand and he does that painful scream that's
52:56
acting folks and they slow it down the music cue but when he goes like this dude's first film and
53:03
he's that's the emotion he's giving us first film wow first film he has 10 kids
53:10
by the way whoa that's too many wes or Russell stop it he was sweet sue
53:18
sorry sue American he's from of course America he was born in 39 so boy 90 so
53:24
he was already 53 when he did this film i Well he Yeah I was just wondering he
53:29
died in 2012 at the age of 72 so not too old but 70s something at least he's made
53:36
a career of playing afterwards yeah that that type again like if you're casting
53:42
like he's you know like he played Sitting Bull and Arrowhead in Naturalborn Killers he was credited with
53:49
Old Indian that was that was what his he's listed as that's awesome yeah he
53:55
worked the rest of his life on television film good for him i mean he made the most of his last 20 years
54:02
essentially yeah it was basically 52 to 72 he did acting hey it might might might be too late for me i could still
54:08
get into film you could it's possible oh man and then you could your first
54:15
movie yeah yeah there's there's not too many of those out there any any roles
54:20
for white men out there i could play the white dad hey guys let's go to the park
54:27
oh man anyway so yeah good for him yeah he died of cancer unfortunately that's through no fault of his own probably you
54:34
know cancer is cancer unfortunately got him but his family said he now walks amongst his ancestors that's cool great
54:40
life great roles and he was a big advocate of course for did a lot of advocacy obviously for political
54:47
movements and stuff like that so good for him yeah he like I said his for I
54:52
actually till this recording Katie I admit I didn't know this was his first role I wouldn't have I wouldn't have
54:58
believed you either like that and then he did a lot of course started got the
55:04
acting bug he got it I love it he has a very kind face too I I liked him a lot
55:10
that's it you know we've said this before where now I'm not saying that actors are well they're just humans like
55:15
us okay they're just humans some humans are great humans Some humans are not great humans it's just the reality of
55:21
humans and some of these humans are actors and actresses and I think sometimes Katie we get a
55:28
hint or a sniff of somebody's real personality even in acting i think it
55:33
comes out i think Oh yeah yeah it just does i've mentioned about Anne Hathaway
55:38
i'm sorry i'm convinced she's a Ryan i I remember listening to that
55:45
episode and you were like I can't quite you know verbalize what it is or
55:52
articulate it exactly but I I kind of agree with you a little bit
55:57
like I I won't not see a movie because she's in it but I'm sure she's never a draw for me i do get a very hoyeness
56:06
yeah there's something about her where you're just like I don't know if we'd get along doesn't make her bad or make
56:12
doesn't make me feel but I don't know if I I there's something about your in fact
56:18
I told I don't know if I mentioned this my wife doesn't like her like why would my wife not like her well she gets the
56:24
same vibe I do maybe it's a it's a vibe it's a vibe and again my wife is she
56:29
doesn't even care about actors she doesn't really hold any she's one of those people who just watch movies or films but she doesn't have any real
56:35
opinions on people but she does not like Anne Hathaway is well and then the the
56:40
opposite end the spectrum in that that way my example for he plays a bad guy a
56:46
lot but oh man he's so I he exudes good human oh yeah who's that tom Hardy oh
56:54
well yeah yeah you know he's a good guy and I've seen him in interviews too he's just such a cool dude i would never I
57:00
Tom Hardy is a draw i see things because he's in it i do too but I'm saying in the opposite way he even plays murderers
57:07
he's like a mob yeah but he's allowed to he's It's Tom Hardy i let him no I My point is I know I'm playing with you i'm
57:14
playing with you i know what you mean i'm like I I love every bit of it and then Well that's that that's what I mean
57:20
it doesn't matter whether they're playing a good or that's what I'm getting at they're you can just tell there's certain personalities another
57:26
good example would be okay here's here's one and I love him as an actor but I think I know he's a difficult personality but doesn't mean I wouldn't
57:32
even necessarily not get along with him i think I would get along with him but I get why he's a difficult personality is Christian Bale
57:39
right but I don't think I would I don't have anything bad to say about him but I I get it i sense it but I think I would
57:45
get along with him and Heathway is another one where it's just I don't know if we get along doesn't make me bad it
57:50
doesn't make her It doesn't make her bad or me good i just don't know if we Anyways it's a fun discussion i say all this because it's your way of saying I
57:57
agree with you this actor Russell Russell means is there's something about
58:03
his persona his face his mannerisms the same with his son who was played by Eric
58:08
i there's something good and sweet that you get from these from these individuals that I don't know if you can
58:14
act that i don't I don't know what that is no yeah it does come out where so
58:20
when the loss happens when he screams in pain from his good son being murdered in
58:26
front of his eyes cuz he's trying to rescue his love you know it's heartbreaking and then that and then let
58:31
me just say this when the dad comes to get Magwa what I love and it's it would have been a trope
58:38
had they made Magwa what I love is like Magwa is nothing i love how he's nothing
58:44
compared to one the dad's anger and the father's ability to fight it just shows you this last his warrior he he
58:52
destroyed Magwa the way you would a child well and he's older too like Magwa
58:58
is probably 20 years older 30 something yeah yeah but do you get what I'm saying
59:03
i love the way he just destroyed boom every hit boom break crack boom and then
59:12
when Maga knows it's coming the death blow is coming and that Oh it's almost start crying now
59:18
it's this is the part where you just like you're just so moved and the father looking at the man who killed his son he
59:24
just shakes his head that subtle he just shakes his head in complete disgust and just you're not
59:30
even you're almost not even worthy of my kill you know you're just like I can't believe I'm expending this energy
59:36
dealing with this thing with the way he just shakes it and just then he he spins around with all this force
59:44
right into his abdomen oh it was just oh and that's what I mean and then when Mago hits this the stone floor you're
59:50
like oh that's it cuz everything that builds that is just so explosive anyways I want to watch I have literally gone on
59:58
YouTube and watched that last 10 minutes whenever I'm in the mood to watch i just
1:00:03
feel emotional oh yeah numerous there's tens of millions of views on that scene for a reason and you should read the
1:00:10
comments everyone just saying this is the best part this is the best film history or or sorry the best scene in film history people like me
1:00:19
just just drool over the sequence we just get wrapped up in I don't know what it is i do need to rewatch it then
1:00:24
because I literally have seen it once and I've only seen it once yeah but there's more in the story maybe you will
1:00:31
get more out of it i think I I fully agree that that's going to be the case
1:00:36
but I do even with the single viewing that last sequence was very powerful
1:00:43
well that was my only stipulation when and I that was the one thing I said to you was that if you weren't moved in any
1:00:50
way shape or form for the last 10 minutes of that film we may not be able to do that we can't be friends yeah yeah we can't be friends cuz you are you
1:00:57
human do you feel nothing cuz even my You should see my kids they were like they didn't make a sound they were
1:01:04
wrapped up they they didn't make a sound during that what did they What did your wife and your kids think about the movie
1:01:10
well my wife unfortunately was busy working she had to work she works remotely and she has to go on West Coast time sometimes so Oh yeah but yeah so my
1:01:18
daughter it's funny of I thought she she Okay so the boys are the are a little
1:01:25
bit My daughter has my second son has a little bit of ADHD i think my daughter does too when it comes to films it's
1:01:30
hard for her to stay she'll either fall asleep or whatever it is it's weird cuz
1:01:36
she's very bright and very smart and it's they're all very bright so I can follow stories very easily it's not an issue with that but she'll get tired so
1:01:43
she actually fell asleep midm movie and then she grabbed a shower and she came back for the last part so she loved that part okay but my 10-year-old son he's my
1:01:51
and my 13-year-old son they're both hu they love movies but my specifically my 10-year-old son he is a he's reminds me
1:01:57
of me when it comes to movies that's all i love that from a 10-year-old cuz most kids with that have devices like their
1:02:04
attention spans for for movies are nothing is in his hands even my daughter will sometimes get the phone i I I don't
1:02:10
really police it in much anymore cuz it's not if that's how she wants to enjoy her life i don't want to police that that's not really my it shouldn't
1:02:16
be my But my my 10-year-old and my 13-year-old son but the 10-year-old is a you should see him he wa he does
1:02:23
everything and he loves this he just watches the whole He only gets up to go to the bathroom we pause it and he comes
1:02:29
back but yeah he's engaged i will from a 10-year-old in 2025 yeah watching a not
1:02:36
not necessarily a movie that came out in 2025 because they make movies differently but a movie from the '9s i I
1:02:43
give that's I love that and when the movie is over he goes I like that movie
1:02:49
that was the first the moment in it i usually give his always gives his thoughts but he and I usually show them
1:02:54
good but he they they watched we watched and funny enough the daughter sat through this whole one it just depends I
1:03:00
guess we watched the Green Mile together as a family mhm three hours long the one sitting they all watch they they loved
1:03:07
The Green Mile because all the characters were so interesting and engaging boy I have I think I only saw it when it first came out but I remember
1:03:13
it being like a huge movie like a big deal yeah so but you'll be surp I think
1:03:19
parents maybe I'm alone in this but you'll be surprised how much kids will watch a film when it's a good story
1:03:25
without CGI without you know Captain America or look they like those movies they have
1:03:32
fun but I've shown my kids stuff that's just drama heavy drama and
1:03:39
I think that I don't know this for certain but it just seems like the parents or the kids that I encounter
1:03:45
don't even attempt that because they know that they're Yeah that's sad no
1:03:50
that's I know i I That's I love hearing that you do that i love that we do weekend we every weekend is movie night
1:03:57
we do movie as a family we do movie that's our tradition so it's our time together as a family like okay you've
1:04:02
played with your friends because they do they play online games or with their friends yeah Friday and Saturday night is movie night this is our time together
1:04:09
as a family to enjoy something and usually I'm the one that picks things I admit cuz I want to pick something that's good quality and that they enjoy
1:04:15
but and what's funny too I what I think too with these older films as we they're older now you know to them of course is
1:04:22
because there is no CGI and I think it's ironic the same way that CGI might have thrilled us back 30 years ago non CGI
1:04:29
fil the kids know like they watch the Indiana Jones films like the first three has no CGI they like the practical
1:04:36
effects i never liked it i was never wowed by it cgi yeah yeah i've always
1:04:42
was like I don't like this yeah so they like the practical effects and the real rumbling in the dirt and stuff so yeah
1:04:48
anyways I know I think your kids your your kids are like elevated with their movie game partially because you choose
1:04:55
them you do choose quality movies to show them i think a lot of families do movie night but the kids pick the movie and they're never going to pick Exactly
1:05:02
the kids picked the movie so it's always going to be Yeah is just by nature kids
1:05:08
are not going to pick like super quality movie you know what I mean oh I know i
1:05:15
know and we do let them have those two but usually I just don't watch them like Yeah like I have stuff i got stuff too
1:05:21
okay now we're going to get to Well we should just briefly talk about the guy who played Duncan who got burned at the
1:05:27
stake there he did a great job i kind of feel bad for him he you know trying to I get it he wanted to marry Maline Stow's
1:05:33
character i don't blame him he got totally friend-zoned it's funny when that happened in the film i actually
1:05:38
said he got friend-zoned my 13-year-old son laughs pretty good at that one he's been busy acting his whole life too he's
1:05:45
got TV shows up to 23 movies up to 2024 his name is Steve Wington very British
1:05:50
name he is from Yorkshire England his wife Yorkshire thing his wife's name is
1:05:56
Jane she's an actress too they have one child together he's 57
1:06:01
again another actor who just gets to active films he didn't look he didn't look familiar to me but yeah I very much
1:06:08
was like oh she's not going to marry you she said I'll think about it just to be
1:06:14
nice I know I'll give us and then the moment Daniel Doo's character enters the film she's she can stay on her horse
1:06:19
she's sliding off all the time but yeah I mean he looked he looked mighty nice I
1:06:26
I will say let's talk about Meline and I agree with you I have a major crush on
1:06:32
Meline she is gorgeous beautiful she's 66 now but when you see
1:06:39
the not I mean she still looks great for 66 you guys look her up she looks great but I'm just saying of course everyone's
1:06:44
in their prime at some point in her life but she has been a lot of films that I've enjoyed and watched i mean Unlawful
1:06:50
entry with Kurt Russell covered it on Retro last season with her last that was
1:06:56
actually the film right before this one was it okay yeah same year but it was
1:07:02
released just before same year so it's funny i was This is how much of a movie I saw unlawful entry in the theater like
1:07:08
I went to movies it was good it was great but I mean but I just like I don't
1:07:14
know why I just I saw that in the theaters there was a time for that '9s
1:07:19
era thriller there was so many of them then she then I saw I saw her twice in
1:07:25
the theaters that year then I saw her again in 93 when she starred in or co-starred in Another Stakeout and why
1:07:32
did I see another stakeout because of I don't I don't even remember her in that i mean I Yeah but I would have been very
1:07:39
happy but I went to that film because of Amelio is what I'm getting at and I went to Unlawful Entry because of Kurt kurt
1:07:45
yeah hilarious oh she was in Avenging Angelo
1:07:50
who was she in i've not seen that movie i just remember you guys hearing your coverage of it she plays the love
1:07:56
interest to a sized character and she was freaking amazing in that film subpar
1:08:02
film yes it's appropriately rated on IMDb at 5 point something it's not a disaster but it's like oof she was also
1:08:09
in We Were Soldiers with Mel Gibson that same year a little bit more high quality film uh objectively speaking but it's
1:08:16
funny she hasn't been in a film since 20 2003 she was in Yeah The General's Daughter is another big one she I saw
1:08:24
that in the theaters as well i saw 12 Monkeys in the theaters with Brad Pitt and Bruce Willis i went to that movie because of Willis at the time yeah I
1:08:31
guess maybe even Brad because of Legends of the Fall but I think still but I definitely because of Bruce i might even
1:08:37
been a bigger Bruce fan in 95 than than Brad i think my Brad's fandom kicked into high gear with seven two years
1:08:44
later i can see that yeah I think that's when I went okay this guy's just because Legend of Fall is great and I love that
1:08:49
film but I loved everyone i loved Aiden Quinn in that film and Julio Armont i like I love that film but I didn't love
1:08:56
it because of Brad it just helped me discover him as an actor but when Seven came out I was like "Oh this guy's just
1:09:02
not a pretty face he can really do these things." What's in the box that whole scene okay this guy could name this guy
1:09:08
seven oh that was a I've been a fan ever since but the Did you watch her TV show
1:09:14
Revenge oh we'll get to that we'll get to that we'll get Bad Girls i love It's a fun It's basically the It's a young
1:09:20
gun It's young guns with girls i forgot about that movie you're right it is yeah
1:09:25
it's Young Guns with Girls and I and I loved it i don't care and then I I loved her in Blink that they talk about those
1:09:30
thrillers at the time she played a blind girl I believe again aiden Quinn was in it yeah i have a poor memory so I saw a
1:09:38
lot of her films in the theater and then she just stopped doing theater which is I don't know why but she's done TV
1:09:44
yeah i did watch Revenge and why did I watch Revenge because of her i saw it and it was a fun series it was canceled
1:09:51
a little bit early four seasons what 90 episodes so it was about It got a bit a bit It got a little too soap opera I
1:09:58
think like it was really good i did too and I did not love the girl the main
1:10:03
girl Emily that's why yeah I agree i love Meline i wasn't a fan of Emily Vancamp same yeah yep i agree we're on
1:10:11
the same page yeah something about So Meline you you bringing up Julia Orand
1:10:16
they are of the same cut from the same cloth it seems just that beauty and
1:10:22
regalness and classic yeah classic beauty like the epitome of the classic
1:10:28
Hollywood beauty just refined and beautiful
1:10:34
not to objectify a woman because we've we've done the same with the men so let's be fair we've said men are handsome so I would challenge any anyone
1:10:42
to show me peak i'm just saying whatever prime Maline Stowe versus any actress of
1:10:48
today prime she she was a stunner stunning mhm yeah yeah yeah and she was
1:10:55
great in this film of course and I get why Nathaniel's you know I'll find you and all that great so what do you think
1:11:01
of that whole Well they did have really good chemistry and I I guess I
1:11:06
don't One thing that was that had me questioning was like they barely know each other and he's fighting his life
1:11:13
for her he'll do anything for her and but I was like well a couple things like back in the day that's kind of all it
1:11:20
took like people Oh sure it is life was short life was short yeah and a lot of
1:11:26
women didn't marry for love or well maybe men either like you and so
1:11:32
that goes sorry I there that was buddy that was his whole thing oh you you know
1:11:38
you maybe you'll grow to love me but I'll take care of you that was his selling point you're right that's right they didn't marry for love back then it
1:11:44
was kind of like survival still and so I mean you know we've all had
1:11:49
extravaganzas where we're like "Wow like you barely know someone but there's such a strong connection." So I was like
1:11:56
"Well that's a little questionable." But I do buy it because of the time period because they did have so much chemistry
1:12:04
she wanted that he could probably have his pick of whoever though too but I I
1:12:10
did I mean I didn't really get that the other two had a relationship though and Alice
1:12:18
I didn't didn't really it wasn't I think it was still in the tea stage okay yeah
1:12:23
but yeah Maline and Daniel D lewis it lovely like they were they had some
1:12:29
really good on-screen chemistry and and that helped me buy it because if if they didn't I'd be like I don't you know it
1:12:36
it hinges our emotion hinges on those two us buying that their love
1:12:43
all right so Meline great now lastly of course the incredible D Lewis of course method to a
1:12:51
tea he spent time in the wilderness for a few months living off the land to get into character of Hawkeye for this film
1:12:58
did he what a nut i love him but what a nut apparently he had he had some sort
1:13:03
of like mental breakdowns a little bit after the film too some PTSD and stuff he just got so wrapped up in this
1:13:08
character living off the land and what have you but it was this film so there
1:13:14
you go i was like "Oh who is this guy?" So I ended up seeing pretty much everything since then and I've seen a
1:13:19
couple of the films before then but everything since then I've seen everything he's in and my goodness so I
1:13:25
saw The Name of the Father I saw in the theater of course the Crucible I did watch on VHS i didn't watch in the
1:13:31
theater same with The Boxer but then I saw Gangs in New York in the theater mhm and then Lincoln was okay and the reason
1:13:38
why Lincoln was okay I know he did a great job i'm not a Stephen Spilber fan
1:13:43
talk about boring his films bore me i know oh right except for Indiana Jones i
1:13:49
guess I think if you're telling me Indiana Jones is my favorite film of his it's not because of necessarily him so
1:13:55
much as the character in Harrison there's something about Spielberg his films are I don't know what it is they
1:14:00
seem Look at me i'm Stephen Spielberg i don't know why yeah you cuz you didn't you also don't like ET do you i hate ET
1:14:07
yeah that's right yeah you're not a Spielberg person i'm But I've seen cuz I'm an 80s kid you
1:14:13
know like you can't escape him but I know very people are going to probably stop listening to my my takes because I
1:14:18
don't like Stephen that's why he will never Stephen will never be covered on the on the director's chair network they
1:14:24
will because what am I going to say that hasn't been said about him i saw Shindler's list in the theaters you know
1:14:29
okay i've I've paid my dues okay i've paid my dues uh I feel bad okay what do
1:14:35
you want from me Stephen i feel bad i'm sorry i don't know what I did wrong but I feel bad i've seen all of his films
1:14:40
all of them but I I'm waiting to be convinced that I I don't know what it is that weird i'm not like blown away like
1:14:46
I'm not Spielberg again like he's not a draw because he did the movie but I'm
1:14:52
like it immediately has some cache because he it's his you know meaning
1:14:57
like what came first the good film or the or the game to the point where you're like oh we have oh Steven
1:15:04
remember he did sh us so we can't hate anything he we almost have to like what he does okay so here's a quick I'll give
1:15:09
a quick rundown here raiders of course I loved ET i hated Color Purple whoopy
1:15:16
bugs me and then and then Hook was not a very good take on Peter Pan jurassic Park i
1:15:21
know you got to think it's okay here's the thing when I went and saw it in the
1:15:26
theater I remember I left it with my friends cuz I was 18 when I saw it i left it with my friends thinking I liked it better than I thought i enjoyed it
1:15:32
more than I thought I was going to enjoy it but again it was because it was so groundbreaking the effects of the dinos are so groundbreaking everyone loves
1:15:38
David Pry Ryan i know that i get it but I'm a thin I'm a thin red line guy first that's why I went to cover Terrence
1:15:44
Malik the one of my favorite films of his was AI funny enough but but because
1:15:49
it was largely a Stanley Kubrick film it was the unfinished film that Steven took over world War of the Worlds Minority
1:15:56
Report was good why because I I kind of like Tom Cruz so anyways that's what but I look at his list of 30 films and maybe
1:16:03
five not even including the Indiana Jones films three three to five I could be willing to watch again anyways back
1:16:09
to Daniel though the the film that he did that is my favorite film of his of all time and one of my favorite films of
1:16:16
all time there Will Be Blood directed by Paul Thomas Anderson this film is
1:16:23
a it's such a good film in fact that I think I am going to do a Paul Thomas Anderson season so it has an 8.2 on IMDb
1:16:31
which is I mean very few movies are Oh yeah eight or above very few i'm just
1:16:38
curious who doesn't like the film i I' I'd be curious what are you You get what
1:16:44
I'm saying what is it you're I have the worst memory i know I saw it but I couldn't tell you anything about it oh
1:16:50
you Well if we do it again maybe you'll In fact I think Paul Thomas Anderson he doesn't have a lot of films so that I
1:16:56
think he'd be a good one to tackle because when he does films he does films they're big they're tight they're like
1:17:02
Yeah he's like the Quinton Tarantino in that sense he doesn't give you a thousand films but he really he writes
1:17:07
and directs his own films like Quentyn so that I like that when a director does that complete control of their film yeah
1:17:12
quality over quantity speaking of which Daniel Lewis 29 movies that's it now
1:17:18
he's now he's come out of retirement you hear about that well it shows on IMDb anime an or how do you pronounce that i
1:17:26
don't know how to pronounce that good question so it's directed by his son oh that's why he's coming out of retirement
1:17:32
reverse nepotism which is fine and his son's dad i'm writing and directing a movie your name will help it get
1:17:38
something well he probably Well Daniel also co-wrote it with him so it's it's a fatherson project i do like that and I
1:17:44
was going to ask you cuz cuz he did retire i just It's interesting that he
1:17:49
is clearly not in it for the I I want a payday movie he chooses almost every
1:17:56
movie so he's only done 29 movies almost all of them are rated extremely highly
1:18:02
yeah there's only a you know maybe two that are less than seven but yeah he
1:18:08
he's not doing you know there's grandpa on the side or whatever you know like
1:18:14
Robert Dairo like I love Robert Dairo but he will admit I did that cuz I wanted a new car or a new house or
1:18:20
whatever d doesn't do that yeah the the project is important to him apparently
1:18:26
when he did Lincoln for example he literally stayed in character the whole film in that he talked to everyone with
1:18:31
the voice and the charact like as Lincoln like he acted like if Lincoln was there this is how he'd act that's
1:18:37
just how he does it he just I mean he's not considered one of the best actors of
1:18:43
our time for nothing yeah and then apparently he went on to be a shoe repairman I think i don't know if he's still doing that that's serious yes oh
1:18:51
yeah right here and he retired twice from acting from 97 to 2000 and during
1:18:57
that time he took up a new new profession during that three three-year period as an apprentice shoemaker in
1:19:05
Italy so well hey I had moved to Italy and take up some apprenticeship too I guess what
1:19:12
do you like I guess what do you do when you have millions of dollars and two Oscars i'm gonna make shoes so I'm sure
1:19:18
they're high quality shoes probably yeah I would imagine so Italian shoes okay well folks oh last thing before we close
1:19:25
up what's your thoughts on the score overall the soundtrack the score really
1:19:30
helped elevate the movie I think i mean because it was very specific who did the
1:19:37
score who trevor Jones oh I don't know that name it's very good though well
1:19:43
here's some of the films he's done that you would be like "Oh he did that one." Yeah this was a soundtrack I had on CD i
1:19:48
would put this on my CD player when I was a teenager and I used it for studying when I was studying for class
1:19:54
or stuff this is that type of Here we go so what else has he done oh he's still alive 76 okay good for him so he was
1:20:00
young when he's in his 40s when he did this so some films that you'd recognize i'm just trying to think you of course
1:20:05
you've heard of The Dark Crystal just think of movies that are Mississippi Burning that was a great film
1:20:12
arachnophobia he did the film did he okay hilarious movie true Colors
1:20:19
freejack with Emilio Estz sweet free Jack freejack it was Emilio Estz and
1:20:26
Mick Jagger in a film together what anthony Hopkins yeah oh my god that's so
1:20:31
funny okay i s I saw that in the theaters why folks because Young Guns oh
1:20:36
that's right he did the music for Cliffhanger oh Cliffhanger has a great score it's a
1:20:42
great score if you I haven't seen it in a while yeah go back folks listen to the opening score of cliffhanger the opening
1:20:48
sequence of just like the the mountain shots and the helicopter and they're calling in the rescue flight it's
1:20:53
actually a very moving score in the name of the father with of course with Daniel Day you did that one without the score
1:20:59
this movie I wouldn't have liked it as much as I did so a lot of films but I
1:21:05
would say Last Higgins was his probably quote unquote his biggest hit in fact
1:21:10
it's one of those films if you go again I've gone on YouTube hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of artists and
1:21:16
bands have covered the soundtrack orchestras filling up theaters for
1:21:22
people to listen to it live the soundtrack wow yeah it's really kind of
1:21:28
I I I'm such a nerd i will go on there and click last cover and you'll just see
1:21:33
people playing the violin part and you you see people in their
1:21:39
home studios to you know full-fledged orchestras playing the theme songs from this movie so that's cool no it was very
1:21:46
good can I ask you a question oh yes that's why we're here so I recently
1:21:52
watched a movie that you covered on your Edwick season yeah that I hadn't seen
1:21:57
before and that both you and your guest really liked trial by Fire yes oh you
1:22:05
took the challenge you took the challenge and did it i liked that movie significantly more than Last of the
1:22:12
Moheakin okay well are you just trying to Look this is the last Moans episode are you going to list all the movies you like more than Well I I maybe I just
1:22:21
like Edwick better maybe this is what it's telling me because I liked Legends better and and I guess so by fire has a
1:22:29
7.1 and Last of the Moheakans has a 7 six and so my question to you is they
1:22:38
are very different movies but I was so much more emotionally moved by Trial by
1:22:44
Fire that's fair do you have anything to say about those two i know they're very
1:22:50
different genres yeah that's that's the problem is one is a true crime story and well we mentioned it on that episode
1:22:56
that it was such a powerful presentation of the death penalty and the arguments
1:23:02
for against the death penalty that it moved me moved my needle and the thoughts that I had about it which is
1:23:08
amazing for a film to do that so it it's powerful in that sense incredibly acted
1:23:13
oh I have nothing bad to say about that film it I It's I know the term apples and oranges it kind of is comparing the
1:23:20
two i enjoy both but for different reasons i don't think Trial by Fire would never make me cry so it's not that
1:23:26
kind of emotion i know it sounds like what do you why do you have to cry right well I I don't know there's something I I kind of like it when
1:23:34
movies will move me that way yeah same way when Rocky's round 14 and the music
1:23:39
swells and Rocky's told to stay down by his trainer and he wants to get up cuz he wants to go the distance i get choked
1:23:44
up so there's parts there's that feeling of being emotionally moved that way
1:23:51
maybe it's a bit of a drug a dopamine hit i get it is Yeah so I enjoy being dopamine hit a little bit that's why
1:23:57
that's why I will literally go on YouTube when I'm in a mood just to watch scenes from movies that make me choke up
1:24:02
i do it with the Gladiator film all the time the ending sequence when when it's like when he's going to see his family
1:24:08
again and I'm getting cheery think about it when he's like he's going to the other side and he's opening up the door
1:24:13
and his wife and kid are meeting for him mhm you know when you realize that's what the whole movie started the movie
1:24:19
starts with his death you didn't realize it until you watch it oh that opening sequels he was already dead and you're
1:24:24
like you're just like chills you know that how do you beat that and the musical
1:24:29
score that big so that's actually how you end a film you know how do you end a film how do you feel emotion really
1:24:36
Scott figured out how to end that film like you even got morated i saw that movie in the theaters with my mom when I
1:24:42
saw it the second time i took her just me and her on a on a mother do mother daughter mother son date and she
1:24:49
couldn't get out of the seat for 15 minutes she was balling she couldn't she didn't want to leave the theater so she
1:24:54
could pose herself it was like 15 minutes wow okay cuz that musical score the swell i mean it was 10 minutes or
1:25:01
whatever it was but she she couldn't leave until she didn't want to she didn't want to walk through she wanted to have herself composed and that's
1:25:07
that's how you end a film with that emotion and that was the probably my biggest criticism of this film is they
1:25:14
didn't do the glid Scott figured out how do you cuz I was already crying before the end credits but when the I forget
1:25:23
the actor's name he was in Blood Diamond as well jim Jim Hansu thank you great
1:25:30
actor horrible name pronunciation i can't get for me he when he buries the
1:25:38
figures into the ground he says "I'll see you soon my friend." But not yet not yet you know when he says that that's
1:25:43
how you end it and then the musical swell kicks in it goes over the stadium that's what I mean cuz I'm already crying already when he sees his family
1:25:49
that got me that was where Last Moheakans was and then it didn't You're right it didn't build on that i felt
1:25:56
emot like that dopamine hit falls down and I'm disappointed I'm still watching the film yes yes so yes that is I agree
1:26:04
that's the biggest hit of this film and I can't imagine other people don't feel this way gladiator did it right it's why
1:26:11
probably won best picture it figured out how do you make us cry about this poor gladiator's death and then on top of it
1:26:17
we feel joy at the end on top of it mhm so yeah it's Yeah that that was the
1:26:23
missed mark for It was the missed mark i agree to this day it still gets me why
1:26:30
it it doesn't end the way but I don't think Michael Man he's not that director he's not
1:26:37
Edwick he's not really really Scott and that's not a criticism but I think he has a harder time with human emotions
1:26:44
and I think he almost got it by accident on this well I'll be interested because
1:26:50
I'm not familiar like I couldn't name Michael Man films like if I know the
1:26:55
name and so I was like "Oh Last Moheagens Heat." I wouldn't have guessed that those two were the same director so
1:27:03
I'm I'm very much enjoying the ride so far and looking forward to the rest of
1:27:08
the Michael Man films to see to get to know him better as a director awesome
1:27:14
well after he is the insider but if you look at his films he's not about I think this is the
1:27:20
most you'll ever feel emotionally the rest are about He's all about style and that's not a bad thing that's his thing
1:27:26
style and and men really yeah it's about men he's a men guy he has females in his
1:27:34
film but I think he's kind of about the Yeah the manly men kind of thing but
1:27:39
yeah nothing wrong with that but that's his thing that's his I mean his last movie was Ferrari it's Cars and Guys oh
1:27:46
okay okay so all right all right everyone thanks for joining us today and Katie let us know
1:27:52
where people can hear you outside of the network you guys if you like 80s and 90s
1:27:57
like nostalgia especially the movies and you should check out RetroAde the my
1:28:02
first season was the theme the Ultimate Everyman Kurt Russell and Patrick Sees season two is John Hughes movies and
1:28:10
that's when I joined this season is on the director's chair network but each season is going to be different so I
1:28:16
know what season three is going to be it's it's vastly different from either
1:28:21
of those two so the the commonality is awesome stuff from the 80s and 90s love
1:28:28
it there's some great stuff to choose from boy oh boy mhm retroade YouTube as
1:28:34
well yeah yeah and I'll I'll post your uh Don't worry it's always posted in the show notes but thanks for coming on
1:28:39
Katie and yeah you'll be joining me for the heat coverage so we go hear her voice again look forward to that i can't
1:28:45
wait bobby
1:28:55
D heat heat
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