The Director's Chair Network

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[Music] [Applause] [Music]
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okay and here we are for another episode and uh I'm very excited for this one i
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know I'm excited for every episode but I love talking to these people so much and on this episode I am bringing on friend
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and fellow podcast brother Doug doug welcome thank you Craig it's a pleasure
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being here talking some diploma with you yeah yeah i know that sometimes our schedules don't gel well i know you
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never actually made it onto my Pulp Fiction podcast so uh I'm glad that we were able to make the connection here i
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know i that that one burned me i was really uh I was really hoping to kind of carve out some time but it just didn't
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our stars didn't align goodness hey life gets in the way sometimes and that's what it's all about um so it's funny i
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know that when I started putting out feelers for this show of course I talked to you and Ryan like were probably the
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first two people I talked to about this i think I actually talked about it on uh our show together the uh the show we do
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on the Last of the Action Heroes podcast network but I know you guys are both big fans of The Untouchables but I guess
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since Ryan had sort of already covered a scene from the Untouchables with me you you decided to pivot and we're going to
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be talking about Palama's 22nd film 1996's Mission Impossible so what kind
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of led you to do that pivot from Untouchables to Mission Impossible was untouchable is like your depama gateway
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and Mission Impossible was just sort of seemed like a logical movie to talk about um that's almost exactly the way I
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I kind of approached it i mean yes Untouchables was the first probably the I'm not as deep a Palma guy as you are
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right i there probably very few people that are but uh like so Untouchables
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yeah was probably my intro to the Palma great film you know and I've seen it
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quite a bit but after uh you know after Ryan kind of claimed his his slot on
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that I said you know I don't want to double up on you so I kind of went another direction i said "Well Mission
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Impossible." I said "That's a film that I've probably seen more than The Untouchable is a film that I know
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better." There was quite a few scenes that I could have choose from in that in
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that film yeah and you know what the one you picked when I went back and watched it I said "This is a perfect scene to
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pick." So we're going to be talking about the I guess for lack of a better way to describe it is the you haven't
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seen me very upset scene yes where it's after Tom Cruz's character Ethan Hunt's
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team has sort of been double crossed on a a mission and he's meeting with
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Kitridge who is I guess one of his handlers in the MI whatever they call
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their whatever they their group IMF yes yeah yeah do you know what that stands for by
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the way imf Impossible Mission Force right it's so stupid how cheesy is that
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well it it it is and and that's the funniest thing about this whole series is that the first one came out in 1996
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and they're still you know I think what last summer the the eighth movie came out or whatever and they're not done yet
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and they are just silly films so a little bit of history here is this was
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Tom Cruz's first film that he made when he got his sort of production deal and
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it's interesting to look at this film from a Tom Cruz perspective because he wasn't really Tom Cruz action guy yet
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right and this movie has a lot of firsts for him in terms of establishing him as
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action guy i'm going to do my own stunts guy and in particular this scene but
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Cruz is completely responsible for bringing on the Palama they originally were developing this movie with Sydney
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Lummet I believe and then uh Tom Cruz got Dep's name in his head and he went
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back and watched all Deama's previous films and said Brian Dealama's my guy he has to make this
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film and Doug I don't know if you know too much about the history of this film but they pretty much started filming
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this movie without a script so Deama had a couple of key action sequences that he had sort of come up with or designed and
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they kind of built a story around it yeah that's Yeah they they start that's
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like when does that ever happen where you start with the action scenes but that I mean that that goes to show you that he h he has because the action
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scenes how memorable are they in this film like he has an eye for that and then he hired a team of writers to kind
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of write the story around that and I think the the first team of writers they
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didn't like the story that they had built around it at first so they scrapped the whole thing kept the action
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scenes and wrote a whole another story around that yeah we could get into the whole history of the writing behind it
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but we don't really need to tonight before we dive into the scene I I don't know if you were going to mention the
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failed passing of the torch so to speak from the uh original show cast to the
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the new age Mission Impossible uh in terms of using the Phelps character or is there something else not the Phelps
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like all like everybody all the old the characters the actors from the original series they initially wanted them to
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come in for the opening for the opening scene that went wrong oh to be part of that team be part of that team he killed
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them all off as like a passing of the torch oh wow to the new age but the the
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old actors like when when they heard about that they were like "No." Every single one of them was like "No go screw
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yourself we're not we're not doing that." That's funny i hadn't read that but I do know that this movie from a a
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canle perspective is supposed to take place 6 years after the series six years
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and I do know that Peter Graves the original Jim Phelps was kind of a little upset with what they did to his
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character spoiler alert for almost 30-year-old movie but uh that's the John Voit character he
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returned as Jim Phelps so the great thing about talking about this movie Doug is I know on our Stallone show that
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we we do every five or six weeks or so or however long it is with Ryan is we
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always get caught up in in plot right trying to figure out the plot and the great thing about this movie is you
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don't need to figure out the plot because the more you think about the plot the more frustrated and confused
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you're going to get all we know is that there's this knock list which is supposed to be what the identity of undercover agents and all kinds of
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people want it right uh and basically there's a lot of different sequences in
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this movie that are built around that knock list moving around like a pingpong ball or something yeah well I mean
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there's a decoy list and there's the real list then there's his slight of hand trick where does he have the
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realist is it the decoy list like like who knows you know it is it is it does get convoluted in
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some respects but we actually you know my my main show that I've done is is
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Rocky Minute and part of the uh the minuteby-minute verse uh a buddy of mine
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did uh Mission Impossible Minute Minute Impossible they called it so they they dissected this movie minute by minute o
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and listening to that I mean all the the convoluted plot points and everything like it all comes out in the wash at the
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end where you know I mean minute by minute it's a little different when you're dissecting it that way but it
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comes together in the end oh oh yeah no absolutely it took me a few watches though you know but that's the other
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thing I really like about this movie is you don't have to think about it too much you just know that there's stakes
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involved and that Ethan's the good guy right the list is nothing more than a mcguffin no exactly exactly it's it's a
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way to get us from point A to point B or from action sequence A to action sequence B but the reason I kind of like
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that you picked this sequence Doug is that if we're looking at it as part of the greater whole of the Mission
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Impossible franchise this is really the sequence that the Ethan Hunt in all the other
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movies is built around is somebody who takes his responsibility for members of
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his team extremely personal right and when he loses somebody from his team he
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takes it as a failure on his part right and it's also I I I don't believe it's
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the last time in this series that he's also sort of accused of sort of going
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rogue mhm so the sequence uh it starts with Ethan meeting Kitridge at this
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restaurant and there's glass everywhere and as he's walking up the street you see that big huge tank full of water
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yeah above above their heads yes so I I think if as a movie go you they're
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setting the whole table for you right there and and I I mean I I'm pretty sure that the promotional materials for the film
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ruined or spoiled the sort of the surprise but it's hard not to see that sort of introduction and be like
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"Okay we know what's happening here." Yeah um it's it the background the the set
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piece not background the set piece is is a interesting story too because this
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scene takes place in Prague right so that like this whole the area is the old
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town square in Prague so when it's a a head-on shot of Ethan walking through
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the square towards the restaurant it's on location then when he's walking to the restaurant you see the restaurant
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and Ethan from the back it's at Pinewood Studios in London in London and but what
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they did was they they took that angle of the old town square and recreated it
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and built the aquarium restaurant right in the middle there beautiful so So they really went went all out to make sure
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that that they were accurate in that yeah and you know what that's not surprising to hear based on Brian Dealma
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in the type of filmmaker he is i was watching special features on another one
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of his movies and the practical location didn't work so they ended up doing it on a set and it involved recreating a lot
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of stuff i talked with Seco on our Carry episode about how once Dama gets an idea in his head
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to do something they're going to do it and then it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it whereas other
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filmmakers will say "Okay it's a cool idea but it's not going to work." But
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man he's stubborn enough to be like "No it is going to work and we're going to figure out how to make it work." And
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that's what I really really respect about him as a filmmaker how But it's to be that I don't want to say nitpicky but
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to be that you know headstrong about it about the like the finer details this
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movie still came in under budget and ahead of time like how crazy is that it
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is it's It's remarkable and um I'm surprised that more
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movies don't utilize or more action movies don't utilize filmmakers like uh
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a Brian de Palama if I mean if you really go back and look at it if you look at like some of the great action
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movies that we know and love like you look at Predator and Die Hard those are John
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McTin you know I mean I don't think at his core he was an action director but
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he made great action movies um another one would be
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Walter Hill who made the Warriors and uh uh what 48 Hours uh well McTurn
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was on the short list for this film as well oh that that doesn't surprise me i mean I'd imagine in 1996 there was a you
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know a bunch of different names but again kudos to Tom Cruz for for seeing
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the potential here and I'm trying to remember who I was talking to it might
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have been uh Scott on our Scarface episode
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where I talked about like how you know uh it was great to finally
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see uh him get utilized for his ability to create action sequences and that's
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definitely something that Tom Cruz keyed in on and knew that he would be the guy to execute this vision one other note
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about the sequence is the big tank was Cruz's idea mhm and I don't know if this
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is just legend making or mythmaking but apparently that they attempted the
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sequence uh that we're going to talk about in a little bit with a stunt person and it didn't look right and
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deama decided and Cruz decided that he would give it a shot i think with the amount of water involved they were
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worried that there would be potential to you know just get injured or or drown
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god forbid but this could be the start of you know sort of giving Tom Cruz the the courage and the the motivation to do
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his own sequences so the other thing I really like about this scene is we get sort of the best of both worlds here
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we've got the talking heads where you know there's two people having a conversation but then it culminates in a
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a cool bit of action and some highly stylized action which is a little bit more stylized than I think you know
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Deama normally gets but the thing I love about the sequence is it starts with Kitridge sort of we don't know this as a
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viewer but Kitridge sort of getting Hunt prepared for what's going to happen in
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terms of like him accusing Hunt of being a traitor but he approaches it very sensitively you know he says you know
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you know you've lost your team yeah uh and and the cool thing I love about this
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sequence though is you watch Ethan Hunt start to realize that he's been set up as the
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fall guy here and you see his brain working and he asks why there was another team there and Kitri plays dumb
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and says "What do you mean another team?" And we get those sort of quick cuts to all the different people that
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Hunt noticed yeah yeah and then it starts getting as the intensity level
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goes there's a lot going on the music first of all in this sequence is tremendous but then also as the
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intensity starts to ramp up we start getting those sort of sideways shots yeah the Dutch angle yep cruz tilted one
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way Kitridge tilted the other and it definitely helps ramp up that intensity
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and the suspense of the scene that's funny because I that was something that I noticed long before I ever knew what a
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Dutch angle was or you know I was like wow I mean it's it's disorienting you
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know what I mean when when you see it that way but it it starts I noticed that it starts right when Ethan starts to ask
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Kitrich about the other IMF team exactly why was this other pe other IMF team at
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the embassy and Kitri is like what are you talking about and then he starts to identify them and each time like as the
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scene progresses the the angle gets more and more steep it's like as the intensity ramps up so does like the
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disorientation it's like you're inside Ethan's mind as he's going crazy you
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know right right up until the moment yeah no exactly and I think that's a great tool in the filmmaker's sort of
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belt that that the Palama had in this sequence is he found a way to sort of make us get in the same headsp space as
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Ethan Hunt as opposed to just being an observer of a scene yes it got us
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involved and it started to show us sort of the the intensity of the scene yeah
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it could be like a you know a shot reverse shot or like a a two shot on that scene and a scene like intense like
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that could have could have easily been portrayed very very boringly mhm you know but I mean the way the way
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the music and the angles ramp up you know it's like you feel yourself kind of
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feeling a sense of unease as the scene goes along like it's crazy this is that's one of
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the main reasons why I picked this scene was like because of like the emotion that it like it invokes from the watcher
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oh yeah no no absolutely and and and that's the decision that a director makes is like
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what how do you want the viewer to experience this scene and uh that's the
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one of the main things I love about Dama is he always finds interesting ways to let viewers
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watch a scene and uh this sequence is no different and as Kitridge sort of
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presents evidence as to why he thinks Hunt might have turned what his his father recently died and they give that
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great line about you know it's it's not cheap to die in this country um he says you know your your mother's house was
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going to be foreclosed and there was an influx of cash so you know it's funny
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about that part too it's it's almost like like the uh announcement of Apollo
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Creed as the winner in the original Rocky it's like secondary to what the camera is focused on which is Ethan
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unwrapping that piece of bomb gum yep yep yep uh-huh
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yeah it's It's great it's It's sort of a a James Bond type moment where you know the gum was introduced earlier so u as
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soon as he takes it out of his pocket you know we know what's going to happen here and the funny thing about it too um
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Doug is every other agent in the restaurant knows what's going to happen too yeah they all they all they all saw
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they're like I've seen that gun before they know what's going to happen so yeah that's Ethan planning his escape and you
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know what uh before we move on like another thing I know I just noticed about that too is like he t he unwraps a
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dry piece of gum right yet when he throws it it sticks to the aquarium and
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I and I always like you know it was just like a fleeting thought like how the hell would a dry piece of gum stick like
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that but did you see when he runs his hand through the glasses he gets his hand wet which moistens the gum enough
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oh wow you know I did not but you know what that's a beautiful detail uh yeah he knocks over all those glasses of
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water wine whatever yeah which like I I I I thought maybe like that was just a a
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detail you know the Palma threw in there to explain what how the gum sticks well yeah and and that gets back to me saying
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that it was a little more stylized than I'm used to but the shot was so stylized
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and sort of almost slowed down I think to express that um if maybe if I watched
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the scene one more time I would have I would have picked up on that right it's But that I mean listen just to prepare
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for this I I watched the scene about four or five times okay you know especially like the slow motion parts
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because like when you slow down slow motion you really get to see the finer details you know when you're watching a
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slow motion scene frame by frame and um no that that was one of the things I picked up on i was like "Oh maybe that's
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how like he got that gum slick enough to stick to the aquarium." That's that's 100% it Doug because again um I can't
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wait to go back downstairs and put that scene on and watch that shot again because that shot bugged me
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you know I was like wow it's just it I was like it just seems too actiony and too obvious for the Palama mhm but now
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think you know thinking through it and the rationale for it it was him saying okay this is a detail I want you know
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viewers like Doug to pick up that's amazing oh that's that's so
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cool and that's another reason I love podcasting with people uh especially
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about movies is there's always going to be a perspective presented that you that
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you might not have gotten to for a long time or at all mhm very cool and I love
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the big action moment here um again the score you know fully erupts at that
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point the explosion is glorious yeah cruz jumping out of the the broken
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window with the the water behind him it's almost absurd the amount of water
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and that's another thing I really love about Dama is he knows that we know that we're
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watching a movie so there probably wouldn't have been that much water right
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you know but we get that much water because it looks cool it looks amazing
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it like everything from like the everybody you know Kitrich and and all
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the other members when they take shelter against the water you see the water like flowing over them like the the shot is
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it's in slow motion is spectacular how much detail they got and Hunt jumps over
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a body too yeah it was that guy that's yanked out the window when the explosion goes on he he was a stunt man so the way
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he's like high stepping out of the window which is it's an iconic action shot but there's a reason for it yeah
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because he's trying not to stomp the stunt man and then I love the way this
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sequence ends where we get the reverse shot and we see the water sort of spread
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out on the pavement with uh I think they were lobsters right yeah I think those
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were lobsters and the thing that that's cool about it is it doesn't seem like as much water once it hits the pavement
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yeah but the way it dissipates is it's like like a perfect half moon and that's
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again it it the explosion happens at Pinewood Studios he runs out and then as
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he's sprinting away they just threw like a couple of thousand gallons of water onto the square in Prague and watch him
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run away like it again it's a seamless transition from studio to location
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that's beautiful and then um at that point the movie is off and running and we have a lot more exciting action
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sequences to talk about within it but that's the sequence that we were going over and again I'm so glad we we talked
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about that scene is there any sort of highle thoughts you had that we didn't cover on this sequence
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uh I don't think so i think we uh we were able to kind of hit all all the points that I
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had jotted down that I wanted to cover i mean it's it's not a long scene but
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wallto-wall there's something to talk about oh yeah and that's like I I said when when you know you you kind of gave
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me the pick a scene obviously somebody's going to take the um the vault scene
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somebody's going to take the train the helicopter scene i said I wanted to do something that was like a little little
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more under the radar but still struck me the first time I saw it and and this this was I I was kind of between this
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and like the the opening um the uh the the heist that not the heist yeah the
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the mission gone bad yeah mission gone bad but that that was just way too long in detail i said we'll be talking about
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that for hours no I'm glad you chose this sequence and I'm glad we were finally able to uh sit
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down and chat this was also an interesting movie for Dealama because
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it's really sadly like kind of the beginning of the end for him as a a powerful
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Hollywood guy so he was coming off Caro's way uh which was critically held
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i don't remember how well it did commercially and then he did this which of course was a blockbuster created a
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franchise um he declined to come back for a sequel he wasn't interested in sequels i was going to ask you that was
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Was he ever approached yeah he was i think he was approached to do part two and I think he's the type of guy that
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he's like you know what I've been there done that not interested in doing it again um and then he went on to make
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Snake Eyes which we talked about on the first episode right and then Snake Eyes I I think I said on that episode was his
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like last good film yeah the last high-profile too right yeah i mean after
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that he would pro he made Mission to Mars which I I believe he He did not have a great experience on the Black
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Dalia and that was that was the end um I that was his last American film he made
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some films overseas but it's interesting to see how quickly Deama sort of lost
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whatever power he had in Hollywood and this movie might have given him the
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financial comfort to do that and not play Hollywood's game i really don't know um I haven't done enough research
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behind the history yeah yeah but it wouldn't surprise me i mean I'm sure
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every year he gets a nice Mission Impossible check or every quarter he gets a nice Mission Impossible check
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because again this playing everywhere yeah i mean there's new movies still coming out it's It's on TV all the time
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you know they're constantly repackaging and putting them out in sets when the new movies come out it's like "Oh you
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have you know one through seven now they have to buy one through eight together we had talked our about our Rocky
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collections you know oh yeah like how many different box sets they they've come out with those um Yeah but I you
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know and not not that it was brave of him but you you knew you have your
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diehard lovers of the original series that are going to lambase you if you
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don't handle this movie with care mhm and that's exactly what people did because I mean you got purists out there
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that that of course no no matter what this movie turned out to be they were going to landbased them yeah yeah uhhuh
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and he got lambbased for this i don't know if the palm is the kind of guy that that would you know that would give a [ __ ] about that he doesn't but another
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funny uh detail I I learned researching this is the original director of the the
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original series bruce Geller was it uh maybe not the director he was the creator bruce Geller yeah i I don't not
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not the creator i think it was the director some French French name or some foreign name um the studio wanted him to be on set
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just to like oversee the project so the Palma like allowed it on day one
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to kind of like appease the studio but when he when he got there the Palama went up to the guy and was like "Listen
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this is going to be awkward for for all of us why don't you just scued?" And the guy was like "Thank you for your
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honesty." and [ __ ] off oh that's great um I don't know too much
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about it and I I always sort of love talking about Tom Cruz the filmmaker as
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opposed to Tom Cruz the person because you don't want to really uh get
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too in the weeds with that but two things I really like about Tom Cruz is I've never seen a movie he's made where
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he didn't seem to give a [ __ ] he always gives a [ __ ] and he always
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seems to give 100% of himself to the movie and he also advocates for filmmakers and I think probably a large
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part of the reason that Dama had the flexibility he had on this movie was
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Cruz and Wagner running interference for him but we got a great movie it birthed a franchise and it it brought eyes
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um to uh to Dama as a filmmaker so uh yeah Doug before we wrap things up do
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you want to talk a little bit about what's going on in your podcasting world yeah you know I um
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uh I mentioned before that I'm uh the host of Rocky Minute which is uh a series where we go through the Rocky
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movies uh and analyze one minute of film uh each episode uh life and a global
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pandemic really kind of screwed me during my uh production of Rocky 3 but
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we got two seasons under our belt they're housed on the Last of the Action Heroes podcast network um you know three
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three is still there uh I got some some episodes released some more recorded
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some edited uh I just have to I have to get around to uh to really get
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consistent behind the mic again and in the editing booth so uh well it's well
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it's it's the thing about the minute format is you're for people that aren't really familiar you're taking one minute
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of a a movie per episode and at your peak you were doing five episodes a week
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right yeah for the first first two movies we we went Yeah we did release
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Monday through Friday yeah i mean for people that don't podcast podcasting is a lot more than
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just turning on a mic and talking there's the you know all the prep you have to do and then the post work you
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have to do which includes editing so yeah it's it's it's time inensive i will
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include a link to the to the um the existing seasons that are on the on the network and if you haven't listened
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before uh myself Doug and Ryan who was a guest on episode two um like I said we
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get together feels like every almost every month five or six weeks at the
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most uh and we talk about a different Stallone movie and uh we're running out of movies
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so uh I think that's why we've been taking longer between movies but it's always a good time i I love the
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chemistry we have together uh the three of us and I love podcasting with you guys and I'm so glad we were able to do
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this and Doug this does not have to be the last time we talked to PMA if and when you want to talk an untouchable
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scene I am there uh if you want to talk another sequence from this movie I'm there if you discover another movie and
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want to talk a sequence from that we can do that i'm not sure if you're familiar with uh Casualties of War with Shawn
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Penn and Michael J fox i saw it years ago when it first came out and never
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since so that might be one I would uh like to revisit yeah same here um
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there's a lot of the PMA movies that I' I've seen once or I've never seen another one that might be cool for the
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two of us to do would be um Wise Guys with uh Joe Piscapo and Danny Deo okay
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yeah yeah yeah that one's actually on YouTube there's a channel called the Depalama Archives
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which has probably five or six of his films that are not commercially sort of
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available to stream mhm and they're hard to find on home video and Wise Guys is one of them and I think for two Jersey
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guys uh Wise Guys might be a good movie to talk about that's what struck me about that that that would be a good uh
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good one for us i don't know if you how much you remember about it but there's a whole end sequence that takes place in
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Atlantic City at resorts oh it's at resorts yes i remember it being Atlantic
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City i remember I didn't even I'd probably never even
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been to Atlantic City when I saw that movie yeah no same here it's so funny that and and I know we're at the end of
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the episode but it's so funny cuz every time we used to go down to Atlantic City we would stay um at a place right across
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the street from resorts and to get to the showboat we would cut through the side door of resorts so we didn't have
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to walk outside and then we'd come out on the boardwalk so when when they pull
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up in their limo in Wise Guys I'm like I know exactly where that door is so I
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don't know like the Leonardo DiCaprio meme from uh Yeah exactly the point yeah so we'll definitely find another time to
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talk doug again I always love chatting with you and Yeah uh this was great i
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love talking the sequence that's one of my favorite aspects of the show is letting my guests determine what we're
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going to talk about because um it keeps things fresh for me as well yeah yeah definitely man this was definitely fun
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man i appreciate the uh appreciate the uh opportunity oh you got it and we'll talk again soon all right buddy
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spielberg lived down the street from me and I would often go and have dinner just he and I you know uh as one does
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yeah as one does but I knew him since basically you know I was a kid also and I lived down
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the street and we would go and you know talk about movies which we did you know he would direct a film or you know and I
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would often get him to like screen one of his movies and then we'd talk about it you know I'd get him to walk me
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through every shot and I remember one night I went over and there was Brian Dealma and so we had dinner three of us
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had dinner in his place up the street and we were just talking about movies and there was Brian and I'd seen all of
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his films and I went home that night you know mission was on my mind i was actually preparing also i was prepping
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Interview with the Vampire at that time and working on a few other things and I went home that night and I stayed up for
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about 14 hours and I just got all of his Palama's movies and I restudied all of his films for Jupalama movies we're
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talking about Carrie Blowout yes uh Dress to Kill untouchables untouchables
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okay and I just went "Oh my gosh that he's he's got a direct mission possible