The Director's Chair Network

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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]
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[Music] heat heat
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music] welcome to another episode of the Director's Chair Network
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show/podcast slash whatever this thing is called this is the season however that I Ryan I'm covering the Michael Man
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films and with me today I have first time guest co-host for the Michael Man
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series but longtime co-host partner the many projects I've done specifically
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Craig you covered three different films from Edwick's career but you're with me
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today from Michael Man's career how you doing i'm good thanks and apologies to people on the video my camera is not
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working we could not get it to work but we do get this sort of Michael Man inspired avatar for me it's the picture
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I use for my music but it's got like that blue it's fitting for this because
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heat some of the night scenes have that bluish tint and man is always very stylized so the avatar kind of works for
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the video folks it does it does look very Michael man
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heat for sure so the aesthetic is there replace the keyboard with a like a M50 or something and and we're there
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so we are we're covering a big film today and I I'll just say this up front if you're listening to this because you
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are a heat nerd or fanatic or those things we're not here to give people
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something they don't know so if you're looking for like crazy trivia and all the behindthe-scenes stuff and all
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you're already a Heat fanatic at that point so you already know everything this is just two friends talking about
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Heat talking about Michael man giving our thoughts and stuff like I always want to make that clear because I don't want people coming in here thinking
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they're going to tell me something I don't already know because I'm a heat fanatic but if you just want to hear two friends talk about the movie and our
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thoughts on it this is the place to do it i will say this too this is part one of five so what I mean by that dear
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listener is I've got five different co-hosts coming on to Cover Heat because it's such a big film one it's not short
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two there's just so much that goes on in it and I would like to hear different voices and opinions and thoughts on the film in
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general but when I have my co-host on like Craig today we're going to chronological order of the film in that
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we're only going to speak directly like specifically to the first 34 minutes of the film and it's going to be about 30
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to 34 minutes per guest so I think everyone's tracking but of course I want to hear Craig i want to hear your thoughts generally speaking when did you
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first see the film we'll get into all that stuff just the broad strokes before we talk about a couple scenes for the
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first part of the film i advocated for something special for Heat so I'm glad that you decided on a format that pays
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this movie the podcast respect it deserves absolutely so what Craig's referring to
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is after the five episodes of Heat are released and listened to by the public I
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am taking from all said five co-hosts they're going to share their thoughts and feelings on the final shootout scene
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of the film because that of course is the big we all talk about everyone knows that scene and I want to hear everyone's
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thoughts that was Craig's idea we figured the last person shouldn't be the only person that gets to talk about that part and that's a fair statement and
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that'll be like a bonus episode really is going to be six episodes how long that six episode will be it might not be
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very long it could just be 2 minutes 3 minutes of whatever the co-host wants to share regarding that final sequence and
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I will share my thoughts on that sequence when I cover it with the co-host i guess it'll be the four that
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missed out we'll get to talk about it and we'll we'll pack the You know what I'll probably do Craig i'll probably even just insert that into the actual
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I'll say "Hey now let's listen to the four hosts that missed this part of the shootout." And then we end I do want to
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preface this by saying that if we had recorded this a month ago this
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discussion might be slightly different in the fact that since you started planning this podcast Val Kilmer has
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passed away yeah uh and this movie is such a phenomenal showcase of that dude's talents i'm sure we're going to
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spend time talking about Val but I just wanted to frontload it by saying it's it's really interesting that even a
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month ago this conversation probably would have been different very well said yeah that's true i'm I'm
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glad he died before before we record only no cuz then you listen back and we're talking about him as if he's alive
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and people are like geez when did they record this that's true that's true now it will be evergreen from the time of
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his death onward yeah for sure okay so let's get into it i want to get first off because this is your first time guesting on this season the Michael Man
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season and you will be coming on again i believe you're covering is it inside man with me is that you no it's the Insider
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yeah the Insider sorry cigarette movie yeah that's right another Pacino movie too i didn't even realize that i'm doing
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the That's right the two Pacino films in his filmography is that what it is is the Insider or the Insider Man boy I got
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the two mixed up in my head now the inside man's the Denzel Washington bank robber movie that's right oh man all
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right you're right the Insider that's right russell Crow and Pacino that's right oh it's funny i was so excited cuz
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I got Inside Inside inside Man cuz that's the one with Jodyie Foster in it yeah oh no have you seen The Insider
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i've seen both i just got my brain look I'm a Michael man fan but again I'm not
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a fanatic mean I've seen all his Actually that's not true i'm now seen all of his films but I just got It's
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funny if you were to ask me two minutes ago is Jodyie Foster in a Michael Man film it's good that we had this
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discussion cuz we would have sat down to record that episode and we'd start talking about two different movies no
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I'm sure I would have figured out cuz I believe Inside Man is that a spikely film it's a spikely joint yes Spikeley
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wait I actually I don't know if that's a spikely joint i think it is it might be a spikely film i don't know how he
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handles that credit oh I see what you're saying i don't know if he wrote that so if he doesn't write the movie does he
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still call it a Spike Lee joint are we going to have to do a Spike Lee season that one might be one worth
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investigating too because he's an interesting director i've seen a lot of his films he doesn't like Quenton
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does he he doesn't like Quentyn's use of race i know he takes
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offense to the fact that Tarantino even though he was raised by a lot of black parental figures and things
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like that i think Spike Lee takes offense to him appropriating black culture maybe in his movies or
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stereotyping black characters but since we're talking about Spike Lee Spike Lee
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recently talked about how important this new Ryan Cooler movie Sinners is oh I
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rarely get out of the house to go see movies but yesterday the timing worked and me and my wife went and saw Sinners
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in IMAX and I got to tell you man as a movie lover that's a movie that reminded me
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why I love movies and as I was watching it I was like man it's like Cougler is I
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think now if you're talking about like directors people talk about Christopher Nolan they talk about Tarantino they
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talk about David Fincher it's seriously time to have a like a conversation about Ryan Cougler as one of the unique and
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innovative voices in film there's a sequence in Sinners that 15 20 years from now I could see
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whoever the hot upand cominging filmmaker is saying I saw Sinners and that scene in Sinners is what made me
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want to become a filmmaker interesting okay yeah go see it in the largest screen you can and the loudest
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sound system you can wow if you're listening to this podcast you probably love movies as much as much as Ryan and
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myself and man it was like a cinematic cleanse almost really really cool okay
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all right all right let's get to heat i'm sorry I took up too much no that's okay everyone's already aware but there might there might be a few listeners who
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aren't aware michael Man actually wrote and directed a TV movie called LA Takedown la Takedown yeah I watched it
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about a year ago oh you did see it i haven't seen it it's interesting it was a TV film so obviously it was made for
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TV it was originally filmed as a pilot for a television series if you can believe it
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of the names in here I recognize Michael Rooker great actor and Daniel Baldwin was in it interesting enough that's
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about it for names oh Xander Berkeley was in i recognized that name he's in 24 what's your over thoughts on the TV film
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or the pilot what was it was it good was it ahead of its time or No it was watchable i think without the connection
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to heat it probably wouldn't be worth talking about but it's interesting to see a filmmaker do
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something realize how great of an idea it is and then revisit it and get a
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second chance to do it and create a masterpiece it's a curiosity at most
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it's something I watched i doubt I'll watch it again all right fair enough okay so it really does
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feel like a a TV pilot made for TV type it's interesting to
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see man play with the idea and then get a chance to really do
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it with a bigger budget the kind of budget it deserves and more importantly the acting
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talent that he has in Heat i think every major character shows up in that first
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34 minutes right yeah and I haven't seen this movie in a spell like I don't watch it yearly or anything i've seen it
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probably I'm at three times fully maybe four maybe but not more than five so
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it's and it's been a few years since I've seen the film i know well enough that when I'm watching it I'm not surprised by any of the major beats like
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the heist and this and that but I forget like dialogue and scenes and Michael Man of course had another chance to write
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and direct and make a full-fledged movie out of this yeah you mentioned the characters we're going to get into them we're going to speak briefly about them
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and they're going to come up again five times as I do this so I'm not going to say too too much per actor but I am
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curious with my co-hosts and I'll say this to all of them just to briefly give me your overall thoughts so I don't bore
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my listeners too much but I want to hear your opinions about some of these actors of just how they did in the film overall
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or what you think of their career like I've done on other movies but if I'm going to have more than one co-host I want to hear other people's thoughts on
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the characters if they come up during their segment of the movie they're going to watch because like you said Craig
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almost all the major players are shown in the first half hour of this film which is crazy i'd forgotten that holy
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smokes not everybody but most of the big ones so right away Robert
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Dairo what are your thoughts of Robert yeah it's insane the level that he is able to
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achieve a as an actor and I I know there's a lot of sort of conflicting
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opinions about Dairo now as the political climate in this country has gotten as hot as it has people aren't
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able to objectively look at artists for their art i'm guilty of it as well but
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it's really amazing to watch Dairo in what you could probably consider his
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prime probably from Good Fellas to this movie were like his prime years as an
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actor in terms of really achieving a high level in his craft this character
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it's such a well-ritten character and Dairo's delivery is so good it It feels
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like you're watching a guy who's been in prison it's pretty remarkable in my opinion and people have a lot of
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different opinions of Dairo and Pacino in terms of how one note they can be sometimes but the directness of Dairo
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works in this movie the work he does with his eyes in this movie there's
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probably a scene that's not in that first 34 minutes that perfectly illustrates it but it's even like the scene where he's in the coffee shop with
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Amy Brenamman the reason that we're talking about this movie other than the fact that you're doing a Michael man
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season is because of the performances in this film yeah it's a showcase of
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incredible performances and and this is the Michael Man season and now that I've done his films I've watched the films of
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course in order because I'm doing the podcast in film order and I'm now seeing
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finally with his fourth theatrical film this was his first one since uh Last Moheakans but I'm seeing definitely the
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way he films it's there i'm seeing it i'm really seeing the Michael Manisms and I don't know if I really noticed it
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before per se i just know that he had a couple films I really enjoyed like Heat and uh Last Moheagans those are films I
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just like genuinely enjoyed but watching his films in order from Thief to now he
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really does have an aesthetic that it's just a really cool I don't know how else to describe
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it it's just like suave cool filming techniques he definitely has a Michael
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Man flare like you can tell he's the director yeah and the other thing about Michael Man that I really really
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appreciate is the authenticity of his approach and that is
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everything from especially a movie like this where you're looking at law enforcement and how they operate
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there's a level of authenticity there and that even boils down to the performances other
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directors might let actors off the hook or might let them be a little bit lazy but you can
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tell watching this movie that the performances are just as important as every other aspect of this
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film and speaking of film aesthetics the way he does the angles and lighting and
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things like that he has a love of a certain sound of music now we talked about with his first two films he used
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the techno German group Tangerine tangerine Dream yeah yeah so he didn't
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use them for Manhunter but I mentioned on that episode that the sound was still there and it's here too it's a different
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conductor altogether very accomplished director named Elliot Goldenthal and he's done a lot of films like from Alien
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3 he did Demolition Man for example Interview of the Vampire just name some after he did Michael Collins A Time to
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Kill he's done some like Batman Robin films he's done a lot of big films these
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aren't small films they've done well at the box office type films but what I'm getting at I guess Michael Man must tell
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the conductor Ellias saying "Hey just so you know go look at Thief go look at the
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keep and manhunter and I want you to mimic that sound because you hear it here do do you not hear yeah yeah and
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much like artists or painters have a color palette this is an oral color palette these are
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the sounds I want you to work within but then there's also bigger cinematic stuff going on in this movie too there is but
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this it's still there and I forgot to mention this with Katie and you haven't heard it yet cuz at the time of this recording it's still being edited but
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there was even with that big cuz as Last Moheakans incredible score it's one of my favorite scores of all time but there
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were scenes in that movie where he still had the theme of I hear it i like I I hear it is I hear the sound so even
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though it's a more classical epics by Trevor Jones used in Last Moheakans
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there were moments in that film where it's like I hear that tangerine dream whatever soundsscape he wanted i guess
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what I'm saying is just like Quent Tino has a thing for feet michael Man has a thing for he's probably the first
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director where I can associate other than maybe Stephen Spielberg and John
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Williams but he's the first director where you hear a theme in his music where it's an actual not just theme
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sorry a soundsscape an audible director signature he definitely he has this oh
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you're there by the way I figured it out what your cap was on your cap's on the
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computer yes are you serious but it's so weird that
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it would give us the error message that it did i hope people stuck around because Craig
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is now visible that's wild like I just looked and I saw that I put my laptop on
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a new stand the other day so when I picked it up my thumb must have That's hilarious it was bugging me cuz this
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laptop's two weeks old so I'm like how can the camera not be working already that's all right
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okay I'm keeping that in by the way cuz I want everyone to see how human No Ryan I apologize because my episodes are so
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effing messy i go on tangents i get off topic
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so I apologize because I always do it and it's something I say I'm not going to do and then I do it anyway
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all right so as we do Craig I'm not going to go plot by plot even though I'm going to show certain scenes again
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you're a Heat fan already if you haven't seen the film go watch the film even
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when I talk about these films and I listen to what I've talked about I'm like I don't even think I've really spoiled anything i think no matter what
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it is you just go watch the film it's an incredible film i do have one guest co-host coming on who do I almost
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hesitated having them come on they don't like the film they actually want to come on and they don't like the film so we'll
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we'll leave it at that and he wants to be last apparently so he can like really I don't know we'll see i won't
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name him because I don't want to shame him we'll let him shame himself when he comes on but I don't know how you could
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objectively not like this film to any kind of degree especially with the
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podcasts that he does anyways okay so yeah I'll echo regarding
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Robert i'll speak more about him with other co-hosts but for now I really like Robert Dairo i've always enjoyed Robert
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Dairo i I've been a quiet Dairo fan my whole life i've never done a podcast about him i've never rushed to the
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theater to see him but I have seen a lot of his films if not the majority of his
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films and I always enjoy them when you see him here aesthetically he just looks so he's
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peak and he's like 52 in this film and he's handsome he's just got that badass
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like badassery to him and he's so stoic and cool this is where I give total credit to Robert despite even some of
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his whatever Meet the Faulers part seven but whatever he earned his stripes with
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films like this so watching this with Robert is what I'm getting at i'm like man he was so cool in this I'd forgotten
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how cool he looks and acts and this was the same year talk about a year for Dairo as Casino
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a very underrated and I love Scorsese by the way i'm very tempted to do a Scorsese season selfishly because even
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though he's not really an undersung director I love his film so much he's Oh he's so good he plays of course the
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baddie the main boss guy Neil McCauley he's a professional thief they live in LA and he and his crew at the beginning
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of the film have one of the more classic scenes at the time we're seeing how good they are that's the whole idea is we're
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seeing how good this crew is robbing an armored car take a look
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[Music]
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so let it play a little bit here but again it's that classic scene of the semi hitting the armored car tipping it
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over i love that inside the vehicle shot of the person the car flipping it's
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really well done i don't know how often that was done this don't forget this film came out 30 years ago so that
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inside the car sequence of being hit and moved I don't know how much that was
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being done before this time do you know Craig i don't but I will say this the
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driver is a stunt performer named Tommy Rosales Jr if you Google him you'll see
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his filmography it's pretty remarkable but he is an indicator when you see him in a scene that something very technical
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from a stunt perspective is about to happen cuz it looks like he's there's no
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CGI here obviously so it looks like he was jostled that makes sense so that was him in the Okay that totally makes sense
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because it's a very impactful excuse the pun scene of him being jostled inside the armor vehicle so it's very effective
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now we're seeing how precise these guys are they got the timer they realize once the call has been made they have exactly
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3 minutes to get out of there before the response comes in and this is a great sequence here again another classic scene when the windows get blown out
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when they blow out the armored car door it's just again a very effective quick little scene of the sound effect that
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the explosion has because that plays into the poor armored car's ears have been blown out in the
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process clear
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[Music] now I love that because there's like that slight delay he hits the switch and
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then the Oenheimer effect but a very quick version of it the sound gets gets sucked in there's no sound it goes and
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then boom i wonder if Christopher Nolan even not stole it but got influence from this scene the idea that everything goes
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silent before the big boom yeah i I can only imagine the amount of technical consultants there were on this film and
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guys like Michael Mann and Christopher Nolan are going to want their [ __ ] to look authentic of course they're going to have the right technical people
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involved even that is a Michael man thing and he started that of course with thief consulting with and working with
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actual thieves and consulting with them and I believe with this film the actors and Michael man false in prison was
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visited other consultants in this area so yeah that's what makes this movie so cool is that again before Christopher
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Nolan was Christopher Nolan you had Michael Mann doing this realism type stuff it felt real and that's why big
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shootout the makes it so aesthetically pleasing to watch because it didn't feel like an action movie it felt like we
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were witnessing Miami Vice is a perfect example of this where Miami Vice the
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film is basically a classic study of
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undercover police work how covers are created that's a very technical film in
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that aspect and you can tell that that's the kind of stuff that interests Michael Man if he's going to do a cop movie it's
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going to be authentic if somebody like Doug watches it they're not going to be able to say "Oh that's bullshit."
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Okay i just want to showcase the scene because we have the one guy yeah langro he goes a little bit bonkers uh on his
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own he's played by an actor named I don't recognize his face kevin Gage is
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his name do you recognize him from anything in particular he does have a familiar looking face but No it's funny
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though because Ted Levine is in this movie before you see Ted Levine you watch this and you're like "Oh is that
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Ted Levine?" And then you're like "No Ted Levine shows up later." But he's got like a Ted Levine look to him i'm
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looking at his filmography it doesn't seem like much came from after this film
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which is really odd and too bad because he does a good job playing a sle ball of a sleas ball he's done TV work but just
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episodic TV here and there and he he's got films coming out but they seem to be those type of straight to DVD they don't
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even have a a clickable Wikipedia link if that makes sense i guess he's still working though which
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he's paying his bills good for him he's paying the bills but yeah so he plays Wang Gro who we're going to see
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now basically Stone Cold murders a guard and because of that action they now have
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to off the other two guards and it's a really it's a it's tough again what I like about this film is I've seen murder
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on film before of course it's not a big deal in the sense like I might clutch my pearls but what makes it so brutal in
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this film is that it didn't have to happen and it and the way it's filmed too it just feels real like they just
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execute these guys yeah you get an indication that he's not as experienced as the rest of the crew because you have
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God why am I blanking on his name now tom Seismore tom Seismore who he's Wayne
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is giving the guy instructions and he's not listening to him and Seismore's like "Hey [ __ ] look at the [ __ ] coming out
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of his ears he can't hear you." You can tell that the crew has a level of
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experience that Wayne Gro doesn't and also that Wayne Gro has a trigger finger
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and he's hot and he was looking for an excuse to kill somebody but then as Pacino's character points out if you're
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going to catch a murder beef it doesn't matter at that point so why leave any witnesses yeah exactly and here's that
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scene right here that we're talking about 80 seconds
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left get back get back hey slick you see that [ __ ] coming
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out of their ears they can't [ __ ] hear you cool it and right here that poor This poor guy
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shell shocked this poor guard just a complete days he can't hear maybe he
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can't even see mhm their vision might not even be quite there they're really in a state of shock number one this guy
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is just looking like I said to to blow him away
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i got it got it okay so they got the bear bombs for the armor car good let's
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go let's move i don't understand and it's not never really explained in the film at least the first 34 minutes of
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the film why do they even need this Wangro like they could have almost done this without him maybe it's just a plot
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device i get it but this is such an experienced crew like Dairo's character and the crew it seemed very experienced
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and tight the idea that they had to hire an extra gunman when their whole idea was not to do this kind of shooting it
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was just preventative if necessary i wonder how they screened this guy what was his resume where they felt like he
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could be trusted for this big heist yeah at the same time you can see McCaulay doing the math on a job like this and
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doing whatever calculation he does and being like "This is the amount of guys you need there's probably a minimum
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amount of bodies for guard control." That was Wayne Gro's responsibility and you saw there was the one guy that had
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the stopwatch who was keeping track of the three-minute timer seismore character he had obvious coverage that
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he was looking at it's understandable from that perspective but if you're going to nitpick the movie like your
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your co-host at the end is this might be one of the things that he details about why he hates the movie let's not give
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him any any ammo i want him to come in on his own i should have had him come on first but he swears he has to be last
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cuz I guess he wants to leave a big heat shite for everyone to listen to all right i said "Sure you can go last
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that's fine." All right so here's Wangro and this is just brutal brutal brutal
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viewer discretion is advised [Music]
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that'll [ __ ] with me that'll [ __ ] with me
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there's Tommy Rosales yes now they had no choice because of course one shot happened the other guys
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like "Oh crap they're shooting at us i got to pick up my gun start shooting." They weren't gonna fight but like now he just shot my teammate my my security
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guard teammate so I guess I got to fight now they shoot him down but then you have this one guy oh I feel bad for this
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guy he's still walking out almost like surrendering himself but yeah just wrong place wrong time why but why didn't they
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leave him they're They're totally cut i mean cuz they
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It's a good thing that that homeless guy with the TV they didn't see him you're right they heard the word slick we
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talked about that they heard their voices so I guess there is enough there's voices body statures yeah how
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many were there yeah uhuh yeah yeah
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now who gives the order to kill is that Den yeah and then it's or is it Kilmer
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that kills i think you know what see this it's definitely Macaulay that gives the the thumbs up yeah but Kilmer was in
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the truck he was the one that got the bonds that must be Seismore
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and there you see the sort of the military precision there where obviously he's dead but you still do the head shot
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the body doesn't even move what two in the chest one in the head or something that's right that's the classic this is
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probably a good time and yeah please i'm sure everybody listening is aware that in the last what two years
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probably Michael Man co-authored Heat 2 which is a novel which is a prequel and a sequel to Heat
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you get the history of Macaulay and his crew but the book is split there's two timelines there's the preheat and then
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post Heat and I know he's talked about making it into a movie and I know he talked about recasting and I know Adam
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Driver was mentioned it'll be interesting to see if he actually does it especially now that Kilmer's gone not
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that Kilmer could have played himself or his character just because of the age if you're a fan of the movie definitely
29:52
check out the book there it is heat too 30% off sticker for when I bought it is
29:59
it a good read it is it is it's a thick book you can see
30:06
it's 400 486 pages oh wow long is the hard
30:12
cover so it's a long book it took me a couple weeks to read i actually read it on my Kindle i took it out of the library on my Kindle but I brought the
30:19
the hard cover just to support it and let people know that hey I stuff like this should still be put out so I love
30:26
it no I'm I am going to read it after it's on my to read list and so they don't mention in the book about why they
30:32
pick Wayne Gro does it does it lead up to these events at all or is it just is it early earlier or it's it's earlier
30:39
and then I think directly after as we get to the introduction of Pacino's
30:46
character if you look at this movie and if you look at this movie from
30:52
the perspective of it not being written and directed and developed by Michael Man if this was just an idea
30:58
conceptualized by somebody else this movie it's very possible another
31:04
filmmaker wouldn't have done the cops and the robbers aspect of it where you
31:09
could start the film actually from Pacino's character Hannah arriving on
31:16
the scene detailing everything that happened because he pretty much figures out exactly the sequence of events but
31:23
you could make a 90minute version of this from just the cops perspective and it would still work but the thing that
31:29
makes it a Michael man movie is you get the cops and the robbers perspective
31:36
until the very last second of the film you're not rooting for either one
31:43
when you're with Macaulay and his crew you're rooting for them but when you're
31:48
with Hannah and his team you're rooting for them you're not really rooting against anybody at least I wasn't but of
31:55
course the final moments of the film for me at least it all felt right at that moment i
32:04
was team Hannah like of course yeah but that's another interesting thing here is it's hard to do that because Macaulay
32:11
and his crew they do heinous things right it it's always interesting to see when
32:17
filmmakers are able to showcase people who aren't good but also
32:25
at least make you relate to them a little bit and
32:30
that's one of man's strength here is the cops never come off as looking at
32:37
the bad guys in this movie whereas as much as I love him Tarantino is not really great about the law and order
32:44
aspect of things like even in even in like Jackie Brown the Michael Keaton
32:49
character who's a what in a de agent or whatever you don't really like those characters they put Jackie in a bad
32:55
position and it paints law enforcement in a bad light whereas here you can tell
33:00
through man's entire filmography that he's got a reverence for law and the
33:07
people who enforce it actually that's great cuz we're going to get into films obviously like Miami Vice and stuff and or Collateral with the Tom Cruz
33:14
character playing the hitman there's like parts of you like am I supposed to be enjoying this i should be appalled by
33:20
all this behavior but this is the thing is it makes you question humanity in and of itself and maybe we see ourselves a
33:28
little bit in each of these characters within the criminals of this film played by of course Tom and Robert and Val they
33:36
have a commodery a team building and trust that's admirable they're a
33:41
tight-knit group and you admire and you almost want to can I be part of this gang and that's what made Wayne that's
33:47
what made Wayne Grow such an oddity is because he was such a loose cannon and he didn't fit he was an issue from the
33:52
beginning yeah you know what I think a good word to use Ryan is you can respect
33:58
what they do in the sense that regardless of what somebody's profession
34:03
is or chosen profession is if you see that they have a reverence and a respect
34:09
for it and are good at it you can at least appreciate that aspect of it and I
34:14
think it's funny because Hannah even ultimately understands and respects
34:21
Macaulay the scene 30 years in the making yeah but you can tell that there's
34:27
I don't know if it's mutual respect there's mutual understanding but I definitely think that there's an aspect
34:34
of Hannah especially as he looks at this crime scene where there's a level of
34:41
respecting the craftsmanship of what they do he understands it he knows that
34:47
it's not just these three guards weren't killed for a reason it's like the one was killed and then the two other were
34:52
killed just because they're already going to have murder charges so it it's interesting there and I don't know if
34:58
that makes a good cop is it probably is the fact that you shouldn't
35:04
underestimate or disrespect the people that you're hunting or investigating or looking for
35:10
because if you disrespect them you're probably going to miss details or things that might help you catch them so that's
35:16
probably part of Hannah's philosophy he even says it right these aren't gangbangers these are That's right these
35:21
are professionals right away yeah yeah you have to know your enemy to chase
35:27
them to figure them out i don't have any clips for the introduction of L as the
35:33
LAPD Lieutenant Vincent Hannah but he comes on the scene but we see right away that he's sharp as a whip too so you
35:39
have the best cop in the area versus the best criminal in the area this whole idea of course played by the two top
35:46
actors within their field it's a little bit meta but that's what we love about it i just love the idea that we get to
35:51
that diner scene but I just love how both Al and Robert are so respected in their own acting it's almost like Arnold
35:59
and Sly in the same That's this idea that you have these competitors or competitors I should say it's
36:06
interesting because we got Sly and Arnold at least 10 years too late in
36:11
Escape Plan both those guys were in their 60s where here we have Pacino and
36:16
Dairo they're both in their what early 50s at this point so it's Yeah 55 L and
36:22
52 yeah al's probably leaving his prime acting years and Diierro's a a couple way years away but we got it and the
36:29
unfortunate thing with Stallone and Schwarzenegger is they waited just 10 years too long i do want to say about
36:34
Pacino's performance here and we all know that uh when I'm up for it I do a
36:41
Brian Deama podcast and I've talked about Scarface and I've talked about Carito's Way and I've talked about my
36:47
admiration of Pacino as an actor but this movie and I didn't look
36:54
at his filmography to track it but it seems like this movie is the start of
37:02
the I don't the over-the-top unh hinged Alpuccino
37:07
performance sure yeah can you believe he's 85 now eh yeah you think about it
37:13
the Godfather was over over 50 years ago at this point it's crazy this movie is
37:18
30 years ago 30 years ago it shouldn't feel like a 30-y old movie but yeah i just can't believe it's been 30 years if
37:24
they made Back to the Future today i know he would travel back to 1995
37:30
i know it's so weird that was yesterday what's up while we're talking about technology or how long it's been the one
37:38
thing that does make this movie feel like it's 1995 is everybody's television
37:46
even the television that Hannah takes from their house when he gets in the fight with his wife everybody's got like
37:52
32 in CRT TVs and even when the guy's watching the hockey game at the end when
37:59
when calls are This is a mansion this guy's living in it's a multi-million dollar mansion and he's got
38:06
a regular CRT TV where you watch now it's like the size of the screens we
38:11
have are just that's the one thing that really dates this movie is the technology everybody's using at least
38:18
especially from TVs we're talking about Alpacino as a character his last name is Hannah but he was married and the woman
38:25
that he marries took the last name as well Hannah she's a divorce a her daughter of course played by 14-year-old
38:31
Natalie Portman So this is pre Phantom Menace it's also pre the professional
38:36
too right i thought she was younger than Professional professional is 91 or two I think oh is it okay remember when that
38:42
film came out the controversy about her being so young and the way it was she was sexualized in that film she was 14
38:49
in this film and it's funny that we get the I wouldn't say it slows down the
38:56
film anyway in that sense because but we just see Al playing dad to a
39:01
stepdaughter to his younger wife the wife is Justine and she is played by an
39:07
actress named Diane Venora now would you know that name if I didn't say the name would you know her from anything no dian
39:14
Venora you know what she looks and sounds like i hate to say this this sounds terrible when I say this but
39:20
she's like the Timu or Wish.com version of to me more yeah I think we could have get to
39:27
me more you get Diane Venora when you don't get to me is that terrible
39:33
no no it's not and by the way the professional was 1994 oh it was still before by year yeah he
39:40
filmed Luke Bassan did LaM Nikita in 1990 oh okay yeah yeah so yeah I think
39:48
The Professional funny enough was the first time I saw Natalie as an actress and okay this is another thing I really
39:55
respect when movies do this and and sinners did this recently as well but
40:00
when you see people on screen that are matched with people that would you realistically see
40:08
together in real life so you have a twice workaholic cop he's not going to
40:14
be dating a supermodel it's true i respect authentic casting in movies and
40:19
when you see people together where you're like of course they're not going to be with Cameron Diaz or something and
40:25
I could have done without the grabby grabby makeout session at the beginning of the film like watching them like just
40:31
kiss it wasn't even like that sexy they were just kissing and kissing and kissing i don't know if I want to see
40:37
this this is not this is not appealing oh and the other funny thing about their home did you catch that their bedroom is
40:44
just upstairs in the loft this Yeah that's the thing as they're having sex I'm like "Where's where's the kid?" Like
40:50
"Where's Natalie Portman here?" She just walks up the stairs and the mom's like half-dressed just after Citus with Al
40:55
al's in the shower getting the get the stuff off him and she's just like lying about the cigarette or the Natalie comes
41:02
in you guys done great have waffles now or Yeah where's my barret it's Yeah where's my hair piece hey is that that
41:08
yeah why did we waste two minutes looking for her her hair barret the Natalie Portman character probably isn't
41:13
necessary aside from the fact that it lends another level of
41:20
character element to Hannah and it shows that he's not a good guy because he's
41:25
being paid to be a good guy he's genuinely a good guy if you look at it he's the only one that really cares about this girl you can even tell the
41:33
mother to a certain extent is a little bit selfish and probably not a great mother and we never see the dad but
41:40
clearly the dad's a piece of [ __ ] that's the reason for her character is to reinforce that Hannah
41:47
is a good guy and not the good guy yeah he's not a piece of ass cuz he was
41:53
actually like did the dad come by and see your daughter Lauren is the name of
41:59
Natalie's character so he's interested enough to make sure he doesn't want to overstep his bounds like I'm not her dad
42:04
but at the same time as a a man should be with his daughter and he's holding the ex-husband accountable better than
42:10
the mother is in a way mhm yeah yeah uh-huh okay so now we're at the scene where they they being of course Robert
42:18
Dairo's character Neil McCaulay they meet up with Wangro at the diner so Wangro at the diner talking to Tom
42:24
Seisborn Val's characters robert comes in and I love where he basically slams
42:30
his head against the table and then the window in the diner and there's a buddy there who watches it and then Tom
42:35
Seismore looks at him like nah don't worry about this and the guy goes back to his paper or whatever and every time
42:40
I see this scene is like this is what I wish I could do to my kids when they're nasty in the
42:46
restaurant oh you're being really loud in the restaurant i always Okay I'm just
42:53
joking if you watch the the way they all move in that sequence where they're all
42:59
at the table before Macaulay gets there and I guess Seismore sees sees Macaulay
43:06
pull up one of them says "I'm going to go to the bathroom." Yeah seismore clears the booth and goes and sits at
43:12
the counter before sitting back down like that you can tell that's all team
43:17
choreography they're still moving and working as a team and it's all unspoken
43:23
i will say this again no offense to Robert's character but as good as he is
43:29
he hired this guy which doesn't make sense and then he wants to off the guy he's about to kill him in the parking
43:34
lot publicly they could have easily just say "Hey let's go to the horse and play cards." It's so weird that they couldn't
43:40
even kill him properly i found their whole ability with this guy really of all the professionalism their inability
43:47
to kill this guy properly is weird yeah i think at the same time you don't want to scare scare the guy but also Wayne
43:54
Gro he's the reason that the movie ends the way it does sure i I know I know
44:02
it's the trope that's the trope i get it callie can't let it go yeah so here's the here's the diner scene here we go
44:13
i had to get it on man he was making a move i had to get it on
44:26
and I love the way Dairo grabs the back of his hair it's great it's a great little sequence and Tom Seismore rest in
44:32
peace buddy i've always liked him i've always liked him in films what about you yes agreed and he was an intense dude
44:40
and he brought that intensity to his acting it was two years ago just two years ago
44:46
that he died the age of 61 it's unfortunate we just watched this scene back and we haven't really talked about
44:52
him other than the fact that he's passed but if you look at Val in that scene
44:58
it's all reactions it's all in his eyes he's just dialed in oh I see yeah yeah i
45:06
love how he's very stoic val stoic and And I got to And I got to say this while we're talking about Valon i'm sorry to
45:12
cut you off later in this movie we see a strung out and then a a shot Val Kilmer
45:18
character but man did anybody play Sick and Close to Death better than Val
45:23
between this movie and Tombstone that's true like you watch both of these
45:29
performances you're like "Dude he looks like he's on his last legs
45:35
he's method acting." Yeah okay so now this next sequence here is just an
45:42
example of the Michael man it's almost like he's saying "Hey I'm Michael Man the director that does stuff like this
45:48
it's Robert Dairo just overlooking the ocean in his apartment but just the coloring the hue and the musical score
45:54
will kick in quietly." So we got the camera set up just there we see the gun put down the
45:59
table daniel's character just walks to the glass wall to look outside and then he just does a classic stand
46:07
camera pans up we had the subtle cue of the
46:13
music he's thinking about the events thus far in the film of course but this shot here that's a very Michael man shot
46:19
there just a part of the face and then it goes into focus of the
46:24
ocean then his face blurs and the coloring and everything what do you think of is that a Michael
46:29
man shot or what absolutely that's the That's the Michael Man aesthetic to a tea yeah so I just like that example
46:36
okay we're going to talk about Val in just a second i think he's the next scene yeah so we get to see a young
46:41
Ashley Jud 27 years old i'm not sure about her haircut was that the cuts of
46:46
this of the 95 i can't remember now i don't know if Friends was big then but
46:52
I just trying to Yeah in the book you get the whole story of how the two of them end up together oh okay now does
46:58
she think he's a gambler and not a like No she knows who he is in the book not
47:05
to spoil it Sure but she's a working girl in Vegas and he's in Vegas gambling okay
47:13
okay we're going to see a little bit of their domestic life so to speak and I guess they have a kid together which is
47:19
brought up and they have a fight before they go to a party and we've all been there Craig we've all fought with their spouse before we go to a party
47:26
i thought that was like the default yeah that's right yeah come on you got to be
47:31
kidding me honey it ain't worth the risks you take
47:37
for 8,000 like in risk versus reward baby yeah she knows what he does
47:43
of course there yeah there is no point talking to you cuz all you are is a child growing older what's this supposed
47:49
to mean it means we're not making forward progress like real grown-up adults living in our lives because I'm
47:54
married to a gambling junkie who won't listen oh that's the part I got confused about so she's saying he's making money
48:01
off these hits but he gamles it away mhm okay uh yeah i'm not crazy about her
48:06
hair and I like Ashley Jud enough but I feel like they couldn't get Sharon Stone for those roles like Sharon Stone was a
48:13
little too old at that point really 30 years ago sharon Stone was in
48:19
her mid30s probably oh I don't think she's that old now now you're going to
48:24
make me Google her so again Ashley's 27 here and Val is I always like to know
48:32
their ages because of their dating ages so she's 27 as an actress val is 31
48:38
maybe 35 okay that's okay actually that's my spouse and I I'm 8 years older
48:43
than my spouse so that's legit but Ashley she's lovely you don't really hear about her anymore have you heard
48:49
about her recently i think she left the business on her own i liked her my was
48:55
born in 1958 oh she was older
49:01
37 her mom committed suicide within the last couple years
49:07
she said her sister Winona has had public issues it's so that family seems
49:14
like they've carried a lot of weight yeah yeah that's true the singer right
49:20
yeah yeah the judge yeah it's just a weird because she was in everything ashley was in everything for a while
49:26
there but I think she's probably comfortable she's got her money oh and unfortunately it's hard for actresses
49:35
there's actresses that sort of have parts on lockdown like Meil Stre's probably taken all the [ __ ] that Ashley
49:41
Jud would get now yeah merryill Streep has defied all odds with her getting older but still gets great roles yeah
49:47
yeah okay all right so now we're gonna get to the scene where we have Amy Bren Brener how do you say her last name
49:52
brenamman brenamman now she is a little bit younger than Robert I believe uh
49:58
yeah she's only she was born in 64 so she was 30 yeah so she's 20 years Robert's junior hey look legal allowed i
50:06
think the other thing is and we've talked about this on the Sly episodes we've done just because Dairo's
50:11
character was 52 and Pacino's character were 55 doesn't mean that their
50:17
characters were that age oh you mean the actors themselves i know i just I can't help it Craig i always get a kick out of
50:24
it because at the end of the day the people playing like Amy knows her age like she knows how old she is so she's
50:31
acting to be attracted and look Robert's a handsome man don't get me wrong even
50:36
not even then but even at 52 he's a very good-looking guy and she's 30 but you almost wonder is there some daddy issues
50:43
or something she could date somebody like she's she looks young too like she looks a young 30 in this film yeah yeah
50:50
or 20 something year old she says she was 30 on the dot she's 22 years Robert but that's fine good for her she looks
50:57
lovely and she works in the bookstore whatever it is Barnes & Noble or whatever it was and I guess Robert
51:03
Dairo's character goes there all the time gets books she's noticed him this handsome older guy wearing a suit and
51:09
they they bump into each other at the coffee shop and she strikes up a conversation with Robert saying "Hey I I
51:16
got my eye on you you're just this cool looking daddy dude that I want to hit on and this is that scene here and he gets
51:22
kind of like because of his life of course he's like "Why are you asking me so many questions?" Like thinking "Are you a cop are you defenses are always up
51:29
like it's the life that he's he's created for himself where you can't ever
51:35
get complacent." Yeah and so here's that scene here so she's done all this stuff hitting on him and he bites her head off
51:42
a little bit and then he realizes oh she legit is just a librarian or whatever and she's cute so he changes his tone a
51:48
little bit what kind of work you do
51:53
lady why are you so interested in what I read or what I do
52:01
i've seen you in the store from time to time what store missing Engles i went there if you don't
52:08
want to talk to me it's okay sorry I bothered you
52:14
now he realizes like he believes her oh now he makes the face like "Oof I just
52:19
bit this poor lady's head off." And it's interesting how someone who is careful about not exposing himself as a career
52:25
criminal would be like "Why are you so interested in my life?" He would almost want to play a little bit more oh hey
52:31
how's it going and if you don't mind my asking where do you see me from but the fact that he bites her head off almost
52:37
indicates he has a scary past because she plays it very well she's like "Oh this guy's maybe a rough guy." because
52:44
even when he changes his tune she's now hesitant to continue but she does but you can see she's she kind of reassesses
52:50
do I keep talking to this guy because he seemed angry and now he's not yeah i'm sure what happened with Wangro is also
52:57
affecting his mood and his affected you know how he reacts here she was in that
53:03
TV show judging but I love how her name in the show was Amy Gray and her name is like what came first did they call the
53:09
show Judging Amy because she was Amy or did it just happen to work that way okay now what I love is the continue oh let's
53:15
see the tone change here first though it was good
53:20
i didn't mean to be rude i didn't recognize you i work in metals i'm a
53:26
salesman my name's Neil
53:33
i'm 83 yep she would have been better off just giving him the brush yeah now the next
53:41
scene I want to show you so they end up having kitus the first night as one would with Robert and her but before
53:46
they do they have a date at his penthouse or whatever they talk over their family history and all that good
53:53
stuff was there digital film at this time no this was shot on film i believe
53:59
the first movie Michael shot I believe it
54:04
was Collateral yeah Collateral and Miami Vice were shot on on digital digital yeah digital started around what 2000 or
54:12
2001ish i think the second Star Wars prequel
54:19
i thought the first one was as well me but you're right that was shot on film the second one is when Lucas started
54:25
working with digital the reason why I asked check out the scene cuz this is either it looks very digital which is
54:33
okay so it shows Michael Man of course that aesthetic that he goes for but is this a really bad blue screen at the
54:39
same time oh I the scene where they're like on the deck yes so I'm just going to mute it and we don't need to listen
54:45
to the dialogue but look at this i always felt like there was something going on with the scene and I think it might meet it right here
54:54
like that's not very good look I get it's 95 but why not just film at a proper skyline that's why I'm showing
55:01
this because it has a digital look to it but here that's really bad right there you can see it's green screened green or
55:07
blue screen and they but they had to shoot po what do you call it secondary unit has to go get a skyline shot why
55:14
not just shoot them at the skyline all right okay so you can see why we had to do this in parts right Craig there's so
55:21
much that goes on even the first half hour that's why I always told you Heat needed to be a super show you told me
55:27
this has to be a super show eddie told me and we're going to get your thoughts after we record this part you're going
55:33
to share your thoughts on the final shootout but before we get to that I just want to show the classic why did
55:39
L Okay so when Al has his little blow up so we're get to the scene now where Al and his partner played by the famous
55:46
Bubba Gump dude how do you say his name yeah mle
55:52
male Williamson yeah yeah he's the classic him and Forest Gump talk about all the different shrimp they're going to have anyways so he's playing his
56:00
partner but Aluccino's character is talking to some guy about where were you last night blah blah blah trying to get
56:05
information out of him and I'm going to play it before we play
56:10
i'm going to ask you now i should say was this direction given by Michael or is this or did Michael say Al I want you
56:19
to do this out of the blue it makes no sense the way this conversation is going
56:24
or did Al just do it and did he surprise Michael with it here's the thing was yesterday today you're wasting my
56:30
[ __ ] time listen man look you fall in love come on did you fall in
56:35
love last night you went off somewhere just tell me that i I'll settle for it you know what I mean i'll buy that
56:42
give me all you got give me all you got i swear me and my brother i love I love
56:49
it so much i actually had forgotten that scene i forgot that he did that so I'm
56:54
watching this interview with this guy some sort of informant or something so he asked the guy like "Where were you
57:00
last night what's going on tell me what you have did you fall in love that is that why you weren't where I thought you
57:05
were supposed to be?" Whatever the situ It doesn't even matter i don't even It doesn't even matter but the fact that
57:11
why did he Let's just watch that one more time because I think our audience needs to
57:16
see it too just Why does he do that if I was in this interview right now holy crap you scared the crap out of me l V
57:30
i think that's a Pacino thing and I think probably in the script and the direction that Michael Man gave him was
57:37
probably something to akin of you're dealing with a guy from the streets so
57:42
take on sort of a street persona and Al probably got keyed into
57:49
something and Al is the type of actor when he gets an idea and he commits to
57:55
it it might be hard to get him off of it maybe the commentary talks about it and
58:00
I don't have it so maybe I've listened to the commentary and I don't remember does Michael man say "Yeah L surprised
58:07
me with that." But I will say that the next episode part two of he covered will be with Doug and I'm going to start that
58:13
scene with him that's how we're starting because it's in the middle of that scene where your time ended so I'm gonna show that the Doug I just want to hear Doug
58:19
laugh with about it i think it's worth to do it again but before we go let people know where they can find you
58:25
mainly it's my guest spots with you i do have a podcast called The GOAT a Brian Dealama film podcast or fan podcast and
58:33
I know we're on the on this network together so if you're listening to this on this feed if you scroll up or down
58:39
you'll probably see my DeAlma episodes it's been a a couple of weeks since I've done an episode and I had laptop
58:46
problems which prevented it and then also I hit a little bit of a creative wall hopefully I pull myself out of that
58:52
and I'm serving up new content but if you just Google my name Craig Cohen Las
58:57
Vegas you'll probably be able to find a link to all the stuff I do and I'll send
59:03
you the link Ryan if you want to include it tons of podcasts and I also make music that you can listen to and
59:10
hopefully enjoy but either way the thing I really really enjoy the most is doing guest spots on podcasts we do great i
59:17
love having you on so fun you're actually officially the film even though not the episode after cuz we're doing
59:22
more with the Heat but you're the next film the The Insider Man yeah i look
59:27
forward to talking the Insider because I I almost feel like The Insider might be
59:33
the first Michael Man movie I saw in theaters oh wow last weekend Heat and
59:38
Insider I saw all the theaters back to back to back okay yeah 5 I I wasn't
59:44
going to the movies a lot so I was trying to think about the first time I saw Heat and I really think it was like
59:50
on the double VHS release you know it was like the movie was on two tapes like
59:55
you you had to change tapes i don't remember what scene it happens at and aside from that I know I didn't see Last
1:00:01
of the Moheakans in theaters obviously I didn't see Manhunter my dad took us to questionable movies but he even he knew
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not to take us to Manhunter yeah I think The Insider was the first movie interesting yeah and I remember when The
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Insider was coming out how I was looking forward to it because of Heat i had already watched Heat on VHS and home
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video and had already reversed gone through man's filmography so I remember the Insider
1:00:28
was a movie I was looking forward to i was like "Oh the next Michael Man movie is coming out." So yeah I'm looking forward to talking that movie it's I
1:00:35
think it's a really interesting movie it's going to be great to talk Russell Crow in that movie yeah for sure yeah agreed agreed okay all right thanks for
1:00:41
coming on and thanks everyone for joining us for part one of five that's right we're doing this in five parts and I look forward to doing the other ones
1:00:47
with the other co-hosts and stay tuned for the last episode part five where my
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secret guest co-host will shite all over this film
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apparently
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heat up here
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[Music] heat up here
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[Music]
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heat up here
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[Music]
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heat up [Music]
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here heat [Music]