The Director's Chair Network

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[Music]
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hello and welcome to another episode of
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this Brian Deama scene by scene journey
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And this episode I am super super
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excited for because this is a movie I
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didn't think I'd be as excited to talk
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about but I'm glad we're talking about
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it And I'm bringing on my friend and
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fellow podcaster Seco Sco welcome Well
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thank you Craig and thank you for
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letting me talk about Carrie because I
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love Carrie So yes we're going to be
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talking today about Brian Deama's ninth
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film 1976's Carrie And it's it's one of
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two films that were directed by Brian
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Deama in 1976 So a busy year for him
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based of course on the novel by Stephen
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King I believe it's Stephen King's debut
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novel It is Yeah
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The more I watch Brian Deama films and
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the more I talk about Brian Deama
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films we see that he's got a very very
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elevated style and technique influenced
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by a lot of European filmmakers Do you
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have any recollection of your initial
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exposure to the Palomo or how he was
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perceived
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uh in your area well the first time I
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ever watched the Dealma movie was Carrie
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So that's one of the reasons I picked
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this one because Oh nice And from what I
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remember I mean I was three years old at
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the time So I saw the movie a few years
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later obviously Okay Um he was revered
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highly highly revered for his type of
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cinematography cuz that's really what
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sets him apart from most other directors
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is that he's much more u a director who
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images a film who creates an entire
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concept Absolutely And from the people
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who do that I mean I would call Ridley
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Scott I call him another one He's the
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closest you can come to Cubric without
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being Cubric Yeah You can tell he's
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meticulous about everything Yes And it's
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it's very funny because Kubric is a
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filmmaker that I've always respected
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I've always admired But since I've uh
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made the jump into 4K I've been getting
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all of the Kubric films on 4K Uh and
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what an an amazing experience that has
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been uh to watch the the Kubric films in
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4K Yeah they're endlessly rewatchable
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just from the the the visuals you get
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Yeah And the Palma's the same way Oh
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exactly But I think you can also use
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those two filmmakers in the same breath
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when you talk about their sense of
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humors because I think a lot of people
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see Cubri as this very sort of stuffy
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filmmaker But if you watch his movies he
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had a wicked wicked sense of humor And
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Dama does as well And you see it in
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Carrie And we're not really going to
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talk about any of the funny scenes in
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Carrie No But he's there's a vicious
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sense of humor in it Mhm And I think I
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mean Carrie influenced every horror
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movie that came after it obviously Oh
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absolutely Friday the 13th just flat out
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stole the ending of Carrie They stole
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everything Yeah They stole everything
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and but that's fine because they stole
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from the master Yeah Yeah So that's wild
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that this was your first uh diploma film
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That is that is awesome
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So for those that don't know Carrie is
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sort of a high school
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uh set novel about uh a young girl who's
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super different and it deals with high
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school bullying at the same time as
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she's learning she has telekinetic
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powers
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Yes And I was watching this and you know
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what I was thinking mhm He's a school
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shooter Pretty much Yeah pretty much But
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it's basically kind of a pre bowling for
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Coline kind of thing Yeah Uh
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but it's bullied Yeah
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Everywhere Cuz her mother is insane
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right she's a religious zealot Hyper
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Lori who was nominated for um uh an
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Academy Award along with [ __ ] Spacic
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who played Carrier This is uh they were
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both nominated Yeah And it's I mean and
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that's one of the reasons why I love
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Carrie so much because those
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performances stand up and they stand out
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and they still do That's why you can
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it's it's an inevitable classic Not just
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because everybody in it became huge I
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mean you you can just rattle off the
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names of the people in it who were
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completely unknown because they they
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came cheap because that movie cost 1.6
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million Yeah That's another mind-blowing
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thing Yeah And I'm glad you mentioned
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that Seiko because famously um when they
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were casting this movie Depalama was
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buddies with George Lucas You know they
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were both up and cominging filmmakers
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They cast this movie at the same time
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and and Lucas was casting Star Wars And
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Dama said "Hey listen Star Wars
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leftovers." Yeah He said "Since we're
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we're both casting you know people in
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the same age range why don't we just
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like you know uh share the audition
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process?" So you know like William Cat
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who ended up playing Tommy he auditioned
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for Star Wars Yeah they could have they
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could have switched over and we could
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have gotten Mark Hamill for this movie
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Yeah Amy Irving from what I understand
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almost got Princess Leia arguably should
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have Yeah And I got to say this John
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Travolta say what you want about Greece
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but had John Travolta not gotten
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involved with TA Palama and made Carrie
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of course he made Blowout after it we
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would not have gotten because of this
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Yeah We would not have gotten John
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Travolta in Pulp Fiction and he wouldn't
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have had the entire second act that he
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had Nope It's pretty remarkable And if
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you think of like other actors that
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Deama did that with he was the first one
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to professionally work with you know
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Robert Dairo Yep It's just remarkable
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when you look at the eye for talent that
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DeAma had as well Yeah Another actor
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director Yeah Right He's just good at at
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directing good talent and finding it
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Yeah And of course um you know some of
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the other people in this movie we
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already mentioned Damian Irving Nancy
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Allen the beautiful Nancy Allen who uh
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is wonderfully wicked in this movie Yes
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And when you're a kid you look at her
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differently Yeah Right Because then
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she's just a meanie and she's just
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annoying and an airhead and vindictive
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and anything you know you'd expect from
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a self-centered narcissistic what she 18
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years old or something This is like
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senior your senior prom Yeah Um 17 18
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years old You graduated at 16 So there's
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a very different kind of depending on
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when your birthday is Yeah True But
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basically when I watch her now
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I'm like oh my she's insane That's so
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ins so insanely beautiful Yeah And she's
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so much more athletic than the rest of
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them because they make them they have
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like this scene where they um they're
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doing the jump punish during gym and
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they have to do calisthenics and she
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just does them with ease and she has to
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act like she hates it right and all the
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other ones just you know just can't keep
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up with her It's hilarious to watch Yeah
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And she would of course work with
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Dealama multiple times They were married
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for a period Just a tremendous actress
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And it's funny my first exposure that I
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remember to Nancy Allen was as Lewis in
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Robocop Yeah mine too Another Oh not
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really Carrie But I was really I never
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made the connection until Well you can't
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because in Robocop she looks so
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different She's got that Butch haircut
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Yeah The performances are about as far
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apart as you can get Yeah Showing a
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little showing how talented she is You
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never make the actual connection You
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just see the character Yeah And this
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does give us a chance to mention a
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mutual other favorite director we have
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Paul Alver Hovind Oh yeah Who I would
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lump in with Cubric and and Deama as
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having a wicked satire uh streak Yeah
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And also a wicked sense of humor Same
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kind of madness Exactly Madness is the
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perfect word for it Seiko And I do want
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to talk a little bit since we're going
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to be focusing on such a specific
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uh we're going to be talking about a
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sequence within a scene which I'm really
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really excited about because
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I want to thank you for suggesting this
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movie because it allowed me to watch
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Carrie twice in a month because I
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literally I watched this probably a
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month ago and that's when I was starting
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to put together the idea to do this
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podcast Mhm And then when you suggested
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we watch Carrie I'm like well obviously
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I have to watch Carrie again now because
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I I need to be able to talk about it So
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thank you You have to get out get it out
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of your head that this is a simplistic
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horror movie Exactly Exactly At all Yeah
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But the one thing I I do want to mention
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while we're talking about it is you you
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know you sort of mentioned the European
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influences in his direction I do want to
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say that Deama is and you know he made a
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lot of films that that went down this
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lane but um he was uh he's like
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Hitchcock if Hitchcock was able to make
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films without being censored
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Yeah Yeah It's it's like if if Hitchcock
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was in Italy Yeah Exactly If he'd had
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based himself in Italy he could have
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made the movies the Palama basically
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made Yeah Um and that's no slight on on
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either one I mean it's it's it's not
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discounting what the Palama did They
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were a product of their time really Yeah
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But the one thing I always look at
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especially if you think about like the
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opening um helicopter it's not a
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helicopter shot It would be a helicopter
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shot in Psycho you know like Hitchcock
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had these big ideas and technology just
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wasn't there yet Yeah And you can sort
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of tell so does the Palma Exactly I mean
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the special effects don't really stand
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up You can see the miniature work and uh
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you can see the low budget It's really
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the performances that make this movie
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what it is And it in that way it sort of
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resembles a Hitchcock film because
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that's the same way You just sort of
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cringe through the special effects and
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you watch the performances and what
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these people bring to bear and that's
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really what you see in this movie It's
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you see a bunch of kids just going for
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it Absolutely Cuz it is obvious they got
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a lot of leeway with stuff Yeah And
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that's again you know trusting your
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actors Yeah And and you can tell how
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what a big star uh John Travolta was
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just how with how much charisma came off
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the screen I mean he he plays a heavy he
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plays a dumb
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galute but there's a lot of extra in
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there Oh yeah And and we're not talking
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about the scene but um one scene that I
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was watching it with my jaw on the floor
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because I can't imagine the scene as
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filmed by anybody else being the same
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But it's when he's in the car with Nancy
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Allen and she's putting her makeup on
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and they get in that fight and she keeps
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calling him a dumb [ __ ] and he
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ultimately smacks her Yeah just that
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back and forth and that bickering and
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how intense it gets and then when he
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slaps her and how quickly the slap
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happens Um it's another moment where
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you're just like that's any other
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director with this script would not have
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done what they did the way the PAM did
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it and and that's why I want to get to
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this sequence now So we're going to jump
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to the towards the uh the you know about
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50 minutes 50 or 55 minutes into the
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movie We're at the prom and it's the
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moment when we see that the ballot box
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is is being stuffed Um so it's basically
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PJ Souls Yeah picking up all the votes
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switching them out and bringing them up
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to get counted At this point Amy
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Irming's character sneaks in and we get
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this miraculous This is all one take It
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it took me the third time of watching
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the movie to see that it was all one
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take It's one and it's one crane shot
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Yes Cuz there's tremendous depth in the
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scene Yeah So it starts with PJ Souls
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picking up Tommy and Car's ballot Mhm
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And then it ends with the reveal of them
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winning king and queen of the prom
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Imagine what it took mentally to block
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that scene It's it's three-day level
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chess Yeah I I talked to this I I talked
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about this in our Snakeheads episode
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which is that extended long you know
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three sort of three shots that were made
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into one shot you know Nick Cage
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sequence right but again another thing I
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love about Dama is he visualized this
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shot and he did it Yeah
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And basically the Palama's like when he
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gets an idea in his head that's what
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they're doing Yeah He's he literally
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films what he can visualize Yeah and
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they have to figure out how to do it And
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this one like you said it's it's a crane
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shot So yeah he actually I I um saw a
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documentary on it and he had to fight
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the studio to get the crane Yeah And
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they didn't understand it and he was
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like "Well I'm the director." And it
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wasn't a high school That place didn't
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have a roof Okay They just hung up stars
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to give the illusion of a roof Oh wow
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It's a
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360° set Mhm And they had
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assistants rip out chairs and tables and
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move people while they were doing the
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shot Excellent Just think about the the
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the I mean the trust and the
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organization Yeah And well no and
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everybody has to hit their mark as well
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It's not just the technical thing behind
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it It's like if an actor or a performer
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in front of the camera [ __ ] up Yeah
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you're you're take shot You might as
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well just start over Yeah And that's the
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Palmer right yeah He's a He's a 30 take
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director He's uh he's I mean and that's
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the ' 70s when you think about it Lucas
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was the same way I mean there's the
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famous uh uh Death Star hallway shot
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they shot like what 50 times or
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something Yeah Where and it didn't and
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then didn't end up in the movie
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But the one thing I will say about this
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uh Seco is all of the quote unquote
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gimmicky shots that the PAMA does Mhm
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They're the best way to tell the story
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the way he needs to tell it Yeah Again
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to see this flow of events from the you
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know picking up of the ballot tracking
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up past Amy tells what one shot he tells
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the story Mhm The basic premise of the
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most pivotal point in the movie Yeah
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This is if they hadn't done this nobody
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would have died Maybe the mother Yeah Oh
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yeah because she was already plotting
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her the death of her daughter Yeah Right
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Uhhuh Yeah Yeah But basically uh the two
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of them might have died because
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obviously uh spoilers about a
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50-year-old
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movie Her mother attempts to kill her
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and in the end she kills her mother and
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then she brings her into a closet where
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she's been uh you know basically
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maligned all her life She pushed to the
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glass to pray
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and then she basically kills herself by
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destroying the house around her and she
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dies in the and they die in the fire Yes
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Right But if that if that rope thing if
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they hadn't done that stupid stuff with
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the bucket Mhm if those kids hadn't been
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so mean
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and I mean it's it's kind of presented
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as well they're just fun-loving kids and
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they didn't really mean it right it's
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just this 18-year-old self-centered
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narcissistic You can't do this to me You
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can't make me uh get detention I'm gonna
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avenge myself Well they picked the wrong
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girl for that didn't they absolutely
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Yeah And we know as a viewer we know So
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we know when we see them at the bottom
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of that base where they're going to be
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getting that award when we see Nancy
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Allen and John Travolta hiding behind it
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you like "Oh what's going on what's
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going on?" And then you see the rope and
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the rope goes up and where does the rope
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go it goes up and it goes up and and and
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Amy Irving notices it What's that rope
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for notice follows it and they follow it
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and they follow it and then you see the
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bucket Oh that's where they were killing
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the pigs And they have this bucket up
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there and it's like what what's this
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bucket going to do well her moment of
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glory is going to be her moment of
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supreme embarrassment Oh Haha Yeah Um
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and you see this strand of creeper
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dropping and Amy Irving notices it and
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that launches it cuz she runs straight
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to the teacher Yeah And the one thing um
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that I wanted to sort of make sure I
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talked about Hitchcock with is this is
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one of Hitchcock's golden rules is
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Hitchcock was always suspense not
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surprise where as an audience member we
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know something that's going to happen
16:38
that the character doesn't the this
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strand of creeper foreshadows what's
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about to happen Yes And I got to tell
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you that I'll take suspense over
16:46
surprise every day of the week twice on
16:49
Sunday It's incredibly effective And the
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other thing I want to say overall about
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this movie yeah the shock scare is a
16:55
copout really It's what Stephen King
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always said It's like okay first I'll
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try suspense um and then I'll try to
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shock you and if that doesn't work I'll
17:05
go for the gross out That's basically
17:06
how it go No And I mean there's a time
17:08
and a place for all of it I mean a
17:09
Friday the 13th movie a slasher film
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isn't going to really work too well with
17:13
suspense Uh but you need surprise But I
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will say this as well Seco this movie
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it's nowhere near the Palama's goriest
17:24
for a horror film it's it's not as gori
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He's made much gorier films that were
17:28
not horror films But at the same time
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the the main takeaway from this movie
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that I got was aside from being like an
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incredibly sad movie Um you know I mean
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[ __ ] Spacics performances incredible as
17:42
this girl that you know she gets home
17:44
and you feel her pain Yeah She just
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wants her mom to hug her I mean that if
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that doesn't like just crush you I don't
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I don't know what will And even after
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her mother's dead she still wants to
17:55
embrace her But I mean this movie it's
17:58
truly terrifying Well basically [ __ ]
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Spacic just gives off the vibe with just
18:06
with the with the with her eyes Mhm And
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especially how the Palma shoots those
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eyes Yeah That's really makes that
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that's what makes the horror because she
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did And that visual of her being
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completely covered in blood Yeah And of
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course that's symbolic because the whole
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thing starts with blood because it's
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about a girl coming into her telekinetic
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powers because she u uh start that's the
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idea king had It's like oh yeah it's a
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it's kind of a preternatural kind of
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thing Yeah that you know uh a woman who
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comes of age uh reaches these powers and
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that's another symbolic thing because
18:43
she that's the point where she she stops
18:45
being a child and starts getting
18:47
receiving power over men basically Yeah
18:50
Right That's the idea and everything is
18:52
a motif Everything in this film is a
18:54
motif and most of it is religious Deeply
18:57
deeply religious Everything Even the
18:59
scene we were describing everything is
19:03
completely engineered to make a
19:06
commentary about organized religion Yeah
19:09
Well and and and I'm sure we'll talk
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about this scene at some point if not
19:13
with you maybe with somebody else but
19:16
the the final scene between Carrie and
19:18
her mother in the book of according to
19:21
Depalama she just has a heart attack and
19:24
dies Yeah Not in this one though Yeah
19:27
Dama said "Wait a minute What she has a
19:29
heart attack Yeah Carrie a heart attack
19:31
No Carrie slowly stops her heart with
19:33
telekinetic powers
19:35
In a book in a book it works Yeah Yeah
19:38
But again this is the visual storyteller
19:40
that is the PAMA putting two and two
19:42
together and saying "We're making this
19:43
deeply religious sort of film How can
19:47
you not a house episode they would just
19:49
show it right?" But of course in the 70s
19:52
the Palma didn't have have that kind of
19:55
visual option So it's like well what's
19:57
best well we just shoot her through with
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knives just like the doll in the closet
20:02
Yeah Yeah There's a doll in the closet
20:04
and that is made to represent I think St
20:06
Christopher who is like run through with
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arrows and she was always made to pray
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and then in the end when she murders her
20:14
mother the mother is in the exact same
20:16
pose as as the as the uh patron saint
20:22
It's very symbolic Yeah And one other
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point I did want to note and
20:28
um god we're we're we're talking about a
20:30
bunch of different scenes here but I do
20:31
want to make sure that we focus on the
20:33
sequence that we were but yes after the
20:34
pig blood we get the split screen where
20:37
she looks up and the lights are red and
20:39
then the whole scene becomes red Right
20:42
This is one of one of the Palmer's
20:44
famous red movies Yes Uh probably only
20:47
outdone by Daario Arento in terms of his
20:50
use of red Right But again Carrie up
20:54
until about 45 minutes ago wasn't
20:59
incredibly high on my list of diploma
21:01
films if I was going to rank them and
21:05
it's probably close to being in my top
21:08
10 right now Yes And it's also so
21:10
important to the Palma himself because
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this was his first real commercial
21:14
success that we probably wouldn't have
21:17
had gotten the Palma after the 70s if
21:19
this one had bombed Yeah And you know
21:22
what's funny about that is he did um uh
21:25
his the movie he did after this was
21:27
called The Fury with Kirk Douglas which
21:30
also deals with telekinesis
21:33
Mhm And there's a wonderful documentary
21:35
I know we've talked about it offline and
21:36
you haven't seen it yet called Deama
21:38
where it's just basically Deama sitting
21:40
down like you are right now and just
21:42
talking through each one of his films
21:44
and he basically says that the fury was
21:47
the only thing he could get So you're
21:50
incredibly correct when you say that had
21:53
Carrie not done what it did uh because
21:55
of course it it became sort of a runaway
21:57
hit and also got nominated for two
21:59
Oscars but Mhm in the immediate
22:01
aftermath of it he was scrambling to
22:03
find a project to do Yeah And then again
22:06
I think after you know Carrie did what
22:09
it did he was sort of given a little bit
22:11
more um of an opportunity to sort of
22:14
pick and choose his projects Yes Well it
22:17
it is when you think about it is it is
22:18
really a showcase of of the ultimate
22:20
talent that he has because he had a
22:22
budget made of nothing He had 1.6
22:25
million What is that so and I mean
22:28
that's why he doesn't blow up the
22:29
village He just blows up the the high
22:31
school gym right
22:33
But the thing is his uh superior film
22:37
making gets him through it all Anyone
22:41
else with 1.6
22:43
million would have delivered a third
22:46
Yeah But the other thing the other thing
22:48
I I I want to stress and I've tried to
22:50
stress this in every episode we've done
22:51
so far is that and I said it already in
22:55
this episode is that when Deama does a a
22:59
shot uh that other filmmakers will do
23:02
and and I'll bring Michael Bay to mind
23:04
and I I I enjoy Michael Bay I like his
23:07
films I think when I want to you know
23:09
eat some popcorn and put my brain on the
23:11
you know on the couch next to me I I can
23:13
watch Michael Ba Bay bay film But but
23:15
when you see one of his like you know
23:16
patented bad boy shots where he's
23:18
revolving around somebody sure you're
23:21
made acutely aware of what he's doing
23:24
whereas anytime the PAMA is doing a
23:26
gimmicky shot or a shot that's very
23:28
complex or very artistic
23:31
there's a very particular reason behind
23:33
it It's serving the story but it's also
23:36
showcasing his technique and his mastery
23:38
of the art And I think that's one thing
23:41
that DeAma doesn't get enough credit for
23:43
because a lot of filmmakers that are
23:46
known for um their cinematography or
23:49
their their use of the camera Mhm get
23:52
highlighted a lot
23:53
more or get you know considered as as
23:56
very sort of stylistic directors Well
23:58
it's it's kind of haunted him to a
23:59
certain extent Yes People think of his
24:02
films as too artsy But that's the other
24:04
thing I wanted to get to because I
24:06
mentioned it in our Snake Eyes episode
24:07
is Deama sort of makes artistic films
24:11
for gutter viewers right he's he's
24:14
Mozart when you think about it Yeah And
24:16
I mean a lot of filmmakers I think they
24:18
operate at a level above a lot of the
24:21
the common you know movie goers heads
24:23
but I think that at his heart is really
24:26
making popcorn films Yes And he he does
24:29
it to great effect That's the difference
24:31
It's not art for art's sake He uses
24:35
technique to elevate the scene Yeah Yeah
24:38
And again it doesn't seem self- serving
24:40
It all is in service of the story But if
24:43
you haven't watched Carrie it's it's I
24:45
don't know where you watched it where
24:46
you are but here in the States it's on
24:48
HBO Max or just Max right now It's
24:51
available there So I own the I own it So
24:54
okay But for for listeners who don't
24:56
have the DVD on their shelf um or their
24:58
Blu-ray or the the new 4K
25:01
it it is on Max here So if you have a
25:03
Mac subscription you can either uh watch
25:05
it there or sign up for the free trial
25:06
and watch it But I encourage you to
25:08
watch this movie Uh but also pay
25:10
attention to this shot because it took
25:13
me the third time I was watching the
25:16
scene
25:18
before I I had to rewind it and I said I
25:20
paused the movie and I said "Wait a
25:21
minute." Yeah This is one long shot
25:24
which isn't even the thing that really
25:27
blew me away about this When you
25:28
suggested we do the sequence I was just
25:30
like "Oh it climbs up and then it goes
25:32
through the pillar to reveal Tommy and
25:35
Carrie." But then I was like "Wait
25:36
there's a whole other half." And then I
25:38
was like "Son of a bitch." Sico knew
25:40
what he was doing when he picked
25:42
sequence Because the the one of the
25:44
reasons why the scene is so important is
25:46
because what comes next is all short
25:49
cuts It's all cut cut And I've heard the
25:52
Palmer say that you can get away with
25:55
something like that because cutting is
25:57
considered you know ugly But you can get
25:59
away with that something like that if
26:01
you don't cut before it cuz that makes
26:05
the cutting more effective It's like
26:07
taking a deep breath Speeds up the film
26:09
And having one long pivotal scene like
26:13
this like you said not just building
26:15
tension but it it kind of stretches out
26:18
time And then when you start cutting
26:21
it's like building power in an engine
26:23
and then releasing it And because the
26:25
final act of the film is again a very
26:29
small uh
26:31
very harshly blocked scene right the
26:35
death of the mother the the um the
26:37
confrontation with the mother It's I
26:39
mean it's back in the house and it's
26:40
dark overtones with all those candles
26:43
and this
26:45
scene perfectly connects everything that
26:48
came before it and everything that comes
26:49
after Yeah It's brilliant Yeah And it's
26:53
it's like I can watch this scene again
26:55
and again and again and again and think
26:57
about like okay how did he come up with
26:59
this because in any other movie it would
27:03
have just been a pan shot and that's it
27:05
Yep No absolutely It would have been a
27:06
throw cut you know Go Yeah Back to back
27:10
basically back to the portrait shots
27:12
because they're pretty young people He
27:13
doesn't do that He shows them from
27:15
really odd angles as well Yeah No I mean
27:17
it's it's one of my favorite aspects of
27:19
of Dealama is just you know that he's
27:22
going to find the most interesting way
27:23
to shoot the scene He sets another thing
27:26
that this scene does it sets up the
27:28
motivation for Nancy Allen to do all
27:31
this Mhm It's a sex thing for her Oh
27:35
yeah Yeah Well you're looking She looks
27:37
like she orgasms when she releases the
27:39
rope trailer And that's why you're
27:40
showing the rope Yeah cuz that rope is
27:42
basically Nancy Allen having sex Yeah Oh
27:45
my goodness Well see Yeah I know We
27:48
could probably you know what at some
27:50
point maybe I'll start doing long form
27:52
episodes on on movies and we can talk
27:54
about Carrie and we can talk about it
27:55
for hours and hours Yeah Yeah Uh but
27:57
yeah again this sequence uh the the pig
28:00
blood bucket reveal is a masterful uh
28:03
sequence in a in a a masterful movie
28:06
possibly to Palama's first masterpiece
28:08
of many But Seiko I want to thank you
28:10
for sitting down and picking this movie
28:12
and picking this sequence I enjoyed
28:15
watching the movie uh immensely and I
28:17
enjoy I really enjoyed speaking through
28:19
it with you Before we go though I know
28:21
uh we're both on the Last of the Action
28:23
Heroes Network podcast together
28:25
Technically I still am Yeah Do you want
28:27
to talk a little bit about what's on the
28:29
podcasting horizon or where people can
28:31
find Oh those are there are big things
28:33
coming Okay Yeah Uh I've been working
28:36
for almost a year now uh to bring the my
28:39
my podcast the Mel Gibson podcast
28:41
Hugging the Cactus to bring it to
28:43
YouTube and we're almost there So yeah
28:46
I've uh because I'm taking it from radio
28:49
to television Excellent Visual entity
28:52
now Yeah And we've done it we've done
28:53
two episodes of that show together right
28:55
yes we have Yeah So I'll be sure to link
28:58
uh where you can find that uh on the
29:00
network And Seco I'm sure uh we'll
29:03
hopefully talk again for uh this Palama
29:05
show because I know we're both big fans
29:08
Definitely All right Take care Thanks
29:10
for having me on
29:13
[Music]