The Director's Chair Network

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[Music] it began with a sound that no one was ever supposed to hear
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he's one who saw us yes he says he pulled a girl out of the car i would like you to forget about her
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okay hello and welcome and I know I have a tendency to say this every show but I
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am super excited about this show as well because it's a long time coming so before um we get too deep into things
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I'd like to welcome to the show Sean Wheeler who is a friend fellow podcaster and owner of Scareflare Records sean
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welcome to the show hey excited to be here so for those um who who don't know
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the history of this I did say at the beginning I was very excited about this because it was a long time coming and
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for those who are familiar with my Quentyn Tarantino show uh more specifically my Pulp Fiction show
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Conversations at Jack Rabbit Slims you were uh one of two guests that I still need to have on the show if and when it
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comes back and I know that for this show the GOAT the the DAP show you were one
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of the first people that signed on so I'm glad that we're finally um a couple episodes in and and bringing you on
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board before we get into today's movie which is going to be 1981's
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Blowout do you want to sort of set things up for us in terms of what your sort of Brian Deal experience has been
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my first memory um I was born in 78 I'm 46 my first memory of a Depalma film is
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I was about 6 years old and my uncle watching Scarface on Betamax and I remember just like I'd
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never watched adults watch a movie that were like they were yelling stuff at the screen the whole time and he knew like
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every line in the movie and everything and I remember the chainsaw scene and then there's a few other things in there
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too that like I vaguely remember but that's my first one where it's like I almost viewed it like a horror movie mhm
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and then I think the first one that I ever saw was um that I actually went to a like went and saw I think I have
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friends house was the Untouchables then shortly after that I saw Carrie obviously which I'd already read the book being a Stephen King fan and
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everything and then like Pulp Fiction came out and I was working in a video
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store and just went nuts on Pulp Fiction Rhode Dogs True Romance all of that and was reading all the stuff coming in and
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ended up going and finding Blowout because he kept talking about Travolta's amazing performance that led to him
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going you need to cast Travolta in Pole Fiction because they didn't want him because he was doing he was doing these
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$200 million Look who's talking movies at the time i mean who would want to hire him you know
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so yeah and I was a huge fan of your podcast i was driving a forklift around
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for 12 hours a night i think I listen to everything in your podcast over two nights and then Oh wow that led me to
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Scott and I'm really good friends with Scott and I co-host with Scott and Yeah you know so no I' I've said this before
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uh that's like my biggest takeaway from podcasting is is
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the connections you make and the people you make and I have international friends now i have people around the
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globe that I can uh say are my friends and hopefully I get to meet in person one day but yeah I I do want to sort of
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uh talk about the connection between this film specifically and Tarantino
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because I think in a roundabout way my exposure to Dealma definitely I mean I
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was always aware of him you know I I knew the name he was a brandame filmmaker like Spielberg or George Lucas
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or Robert Zmechus or whoever you want to say yeah but yeah I mean I think it was
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Tarantino sort of singing his praises and then especially pointing out that like you know Travolta had a lot of
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tools in his tool belt if you will and without blowout Travolta would not have
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been in Pulp Fiction i don't think Yeah I don't think so either and he like you see a lot of stuff that Tarantino does
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that you see De Palma did too like in Blowout we're going to talk about the blowout scene and it looks and then you
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were just talking with Scott about Snake Eyes and the whole intro to Snake Eyes it almost feels like in Blowout he was
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practicing to get to do the the scene in Snake Eyes where if you watch Reservoir Dogs the breakfast scene he goes and
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does it in Death Proof in one shot and it's like he didn't have the confidence back then to do it and then he did it in one shot but then you watch you know
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these two movies and I guarantee if he could have done all of that in one shot where he just pulls out from everything
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he would have but I don't think he knew how or had the confidence to do it at that point even though he had what what was this like his you know like 13th
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13th film yeah yeah so like even after 13 films and then he gets to um he gets to Snake Eyes and it's like you know
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[ __ ] this I'm going to do you know a full 14 15 minute intro with what is
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there three cuts in there that are you miss if you're not paying attention so yeah and that's another thing that I I
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like about it um and yeah I don't think there's anything wrong with a a director taking a stab at attempting something
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that they've done before with the intention of saying "I'm going to get it right this time." Well and he perfects
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it so yeah like like I said this is his 13th film came out 1981 it was sandwiched between Dress to Kill and
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Scarface so uh that's quite a a three film run so for those who don't know um Blowout
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is kind of like the Palama's take on sort of the I guess for lack of a
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better word like the the thriller conspiracy craze that was kind of big in the 70s almost like the Zaprruder film a
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little bit added in there with the was it Chapquitic is that how you say Uhhuh yeah you got all that but you also have
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a lot of slasher elements in this there's some of that there's even some co-ed comedy stuff sprinkled in here and
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there that there's so much stuff in this pack like the first time I saw it I ordered it into the video store I was
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working at and I watched it three times that day where like cuz people kept coming in and I'm like what are you watching and it's like this great movie
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and then like I didn't I think I went 15 years without seeing it i got like the new Criterion 4K which is just gorgeous
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and watched that a bunch of times over the last like year since I got the 4K cuz it's such a good movie that Oh yeah
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anytime so yeah it's one of three DealMama films that are part of the Criterion collection the others being
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Sisters and Dress to Kill yeah which I I love him because he's he always gets
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bunched in with that you know the brat pack and everything and he's such the edgier filmmaker that he's going to
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places that the other ones wouldn't dare to go other than Scorsese like Taxi Driver is the closest thing that you're
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going to get to a Palma film from the rest of them pretty much there's I mean there's a few things sprinkled in but
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he's so methodical it's almost like he's got like uh autism or something the way he hyperfocuses on stuff yeah and I've
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said it before uh the other thing I really admire about Dealma as a filmmaker is he's not afraid to get down
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and and uh in the gutter if you will oh no get a little dirty get a little
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sleazy but still maintain that sort of art house aesthetic uh were you like you
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know like you said a lot of his contemporaries wouldn't do that like Francis Ford Copala surely wouldn't do
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that no like we I was so excited because that that Tarantino thing the movie critic I thought it was going to be like
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a dealma thriller is what I was thinking it was going to be something like that and then you know obviously it's canceled i mean we keep going back to
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Tarantino but like it all ties together yeah yeah so I think before we jump in
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the scene uh maybe just a little bit of your overall thoughts on the movie aside from the fact that you said you you know
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you're a big fan of it but I mean this this features another really really interesting performance from Nancy Allen
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who we talked about previously on the Carry episode and like those two performances are about as far apart as
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you can get well and I'd never seen I'd never watched these back in the day like the movies that are in it like I I knew
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her from Robocop and Murphy oh yeah she's kind of hidden in out of sight where if you kind of blink you don't
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even notice it's her but um going back and revisiting these movies like I told you before we started like I'm not the
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world's biggest Palma fan there's a lot of these films that I really like and respect but it's not something I put on
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a lot this movie is I'm one of the few people out there that you're going to hear that you know is like I love I
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loved Mission to Mars and uh I'm I'll be whenever you do Wise Guys I'll be the guy that'll be
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like oh I I'll talk about Wise Guys cuz you know Yeah it's funny uh I do have a
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commitment for Wise Guys but the great thing about this show is we do multiple scenes so I'm sure we'll pick a scene to
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do from that i love that movie my dad just sat my dad has a very unique laugh and I remember the first time he brought
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that home and I watched it with him because Captain Lou Obana was in it i was a wrestling fan in the 80s and he
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steals that whole movie he's so good i watched that within the last couple of weeks there's a page on YouTube called
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the Deama Archives and it's not very active but what they've basically done
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is they've uploaded and nobody's giving them a hard time about this they've
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uploaded dama films that aren't available like commercially through any
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like legitimate studio so they have a nice widescreen print of of Wise Guys
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they've got a lot of the early '7s comedies he did like get to know your rabbit and things like that the Dairo
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stuff some of which I haven't even sat down to watch yet I haven't seen any of those either yeah
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uh but really really interesting so uh yes Nancy Allen uh we've also got John Lithggo and then we've also got just the
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amazing Dennis Fron oh yeah i think most of us know him from NYPD Blue but man
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when I started watching a lot of films from the from the early 80s he pops up
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in that psycho sequel there's something about him that he has a little bit of sleaziness to his look but he's a very
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eloquent actor yeah yeah yeah he's got that New York um it's what there's the scene in Blowout here where he does the
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TV um he's doing the interview on the news about giving over the photos and he's like yeah some they're testing
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these lenses right like he just is so confident what he's saying but he looks like a sleas ball
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yeah like I loved him in um City of Angels he's so good in that where he's got he's like the cancer patient
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everything really like it's like you feel really bad for him because you know he's dying and everything and then he he
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doesn't or Yeah yeah so Yeah i know i'm so glad that he was able to have that amazing sort of second act where he got
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I I don't even remember how many Emmys he won for for NYPD Blue but
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uh I'm sure that uh from a creative standpoint that show was pretty fulfilling for him and also I think for
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his overall uh finances and his retirement account yeah cuz in this
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movie he's really just a sleas bag you can you know and Lithgow like this movie I saw
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this movie after I saw Harry and the Hendersons and it like ruined Lithggo's character for me it's amazing the way
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that Pama used Lithgow and I mean I know he played villains before he popped up
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as sort of the villain in Cliffhanger yep but people had forgotten about that when Dexter came out because he's the
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Trinity Killer on Dexter people forgot about like how can you how can you have this guy do it like go back and watch the Palma films like he's a he's sick as
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hell in all those movies yeah it's remarkable so the the scene we're going to talk about is John Travolta plays a
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movie Soundman and he's pretty much working on lowbudget Z-grade type films
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my wheel hops yeah and the interesting thing about the setup for this scene is
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I think it's pretty funny that the need for new sound effects pretty much drives
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the entire narrative of this film like if the director didn't give him a hard
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time about using the same sounds over and over and over again he wouldn't have
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gone out to do some new field recordings yep and of course I can't not mention
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which kind of pays off the whole movie the terrible scream that was captured in the opening sequence of this film that
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needs to be replaced and I I think it's
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it's I don't know if I'm intelligent enough to explain it properly but the
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way that the PAMA ties all that in the Palama wrote this film as well ties in
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the the replacement scream that ends up getting used I don't know it just seems like he he
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threaded a needle that was pretty intricate and I always appreciate seeing how he gets there
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and how it psychologically impacts Travolta's character as well yeah almost
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as much as the uh dead cop yeah that you know like has affected him for years and led him down where he's working on
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B-grade movies and he used to have this really good job doing stuff with sound and now he's not he's kind of a shell of
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what he was so there's also like where you see like he's looking for redemption I think through all of this is why he's
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trying to do this and uncover some stuff you know that is happening where it's
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it's a political thriller that you know like you were going to go more into with the storyline thing but he ends up
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getting uh like a political assassination on just the audio of it and he's standing on this bridge in the
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scene that we're talking about well there's we talked about this two scenes kind of that piggyback each other but
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he's just standing there and like recording sound with this the weirdest looking mic I've ever seen and he's just
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standing there and it's like it goes from the rustling of the leaves and the movement in the water and then he picks
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up a conversation of a couple and then there's a frog and he's that he's getting and then you know all of a
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sudden there's a he's picking up like this internal timer of a stoplight like
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a timed one off to the side and then all of a sudden he gets this owl and everything and he's waving this
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microphone around the greatest split diapter shotama ever did is that owl the And not only that
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like we there's another shot of that owl when he's going back through it later
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where the owl turns around and it's the the car thing is coming at him it is such an amazing shot and you guys were
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talking about how like normal directors would just have the printed word on the page and you're just going to get a shot of an owl and then you're going to get a
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shot of Travolta then you're going to get the car and not with him it's methodically thought out of how can I
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make this the most interesting and eye appealing possible on screen for everybody to tell this story without it
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just being this boring crap that everybody else is doing and it's so thought out of how everything like look
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at the frog shot every time that frog croaks the camera moves a little bit further back to versus one bridge then
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it's you see this giant bridge behind him and it's such a beautiful shot and then you like all a sudden you look and
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the frog is in the for the all the way in the foreground perfectly in focus so is everything else in the back it's such
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a beautiful shot and the way that it's done and everything and he's up there and he's got this microphone and it's
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just like he's conducting a symphony with it you know going back and forth and then when he goes and he does he
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listens to it later he's doing the same thing with a pencil where he's just kind of closing his eyes and going over it in his head like he's conducting a symphony
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and it's such a beautiful way of doing it where it could have just been him standing there and there's sound and all
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of a sudden he would have turned around and here comes the car and then he's in the water and then you've got even the
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little spot where the guy is under the bridge which he pulls it's a gialo thing where you blink you're going to miss it
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it's almost like um if anyone's ever seen Deep Red the whole movie's given away in the first 10 minutes of the
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movie but if you blink it's gone but here's the same thing if you're if you're watching the action you're going
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to miss you know and then you find out like 15 minutes later that there was somebody there but still it's so much so
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many layers and it's not even like an onion that he's got layers on it's like harder than that mhm yeah there's so
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much beautiful stuff going on in this scene and then even like he goes back and he listens to
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the tape and it's everything that you just saw but different angles of it like he was doing like two or three cameras
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at a time and it's like he's so restrained and it's like a master at work but he never gets the credit for it
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until recently yeah absolutely and I do like how you sort of described conducting and I I
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think if anything probably especially at the at the time this movie introduced people to
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the idea of soundmen in in Hollywood and he kind of explains it to the Nancy
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Allen character y you know when you hear a door close or something I put the door close in i think it's it's a really
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interesting sequence in the sense that like you said the way he captured it the way we sort of follow the movements of
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the shotgun microphone and we're seeing the internal process that Jack goes
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through to build sounds for his personal library that's not just what's going on
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in this normally in your reality of movies the camera does not lie but what
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he's proving through this entire scene is that the microphone doesn't lie mhm everything that he's pointing at you're
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seeing so you know that's a frog that's an owl that's a light with a timer in it that you can hear clicking you know
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going through and everything and that's what he's doing so that when you hear all of it later you're you're fully on
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board with what's going on with the Travolta character which Travolta let's I mean Greece welcome back cotter Urban
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Cowboy he's always playing some doofy version of Travolta this is the first
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movie I ever saw him in where he's playing it straight you know like he's just a normal everyday guy that's you
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know just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time because his boss is being a jerk and then he ends up
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falling in love and everything else and you know and he falls in love with her like right away the look on his face
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when she starts giggling in the ER and stuff you can just tell like even if he wasn't in love with her he was that at
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that point so yeah one other interesting thing I I like about this sequence so
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the the first half of that sequence prior to the car crash it's very very focused on Yep the the the sound in the
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environment and then as soon as the crash happens we get that bombastic score and his restraint complete because
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he could have been playing anybody else would have played that beautiful score under all of that he didn't and then it kicks in yeah and that's another thing I
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I really appreciate about Deama is what he doesn't do in a sequence is as
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important as what he is doing and I think that's something that doesn't get talked about enough yep that's like the
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the untouchables with the baby carriage scene give that to anybody else watch what happens you watch that scene and
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it's like "Oh my god like who thought this up?" And I mean I guarantee it wasn't written on the page like that
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i've never read the script but it's probably not it i mean if you if you if you know David Mamemoth David Mamemoth's
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not writing out that kind of you know those kind of beats i I'd imagine the David Mamemoth script is a lot of
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dialogue with very very little else going on yeah I know that De Palma was
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like you know like we could do this and how slow he talks everything and then he always throws in a holy mackerel in it i
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saw that same the same documentary like you could do a drinking game to him saying holy mackerel yeah so you did
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mention before we came on that the two sequences we're sort of covering are sort of broken up
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by Travolta and the Nancy Allen character in the ER do you want to sort
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of skip to the editing bay where Jack is listening back to what he captured
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and basically it's almost the same as the scene before it's just you're looking at it through a different camera
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is all it is and there that there's that shot of that owl like you see him and then the owl turns around to look at the
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car coming and it's like I I've never seen anything like that in another movie and I that's the part like cuz this is
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like 9 minutes in to the movie I'd say like Yeah uhhuh yeah i I did check my watch when I watched it yesterday yeah
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yeah so it's like 12 minutes in and then you get like the four minutes of the actual blowout sequence and he's in the
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water trying to get her out and then you have the ER and then it goes back where he's listening to it again did I hear that right because he thinks he hear
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heard a shotgun blast or a gun blast mhm he's listening to it and it's just the way that that all of that is it's you
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give that to the hands of any other director and I don't see it ending up like this at all it's just a complete
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probably a mess because I mean how do you film this with such you know beauty
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to it and the I don't even know what the word is it's it's like a symphony when you watch it and then that music kicks
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in and it's like oh you know like all of a sudden he's built up so much tension through all of it because you're waiting
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for something to happen and it's funny because the movie is about a soundman and the soundmen in this movie are the
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real stars of the movie they did such an amazing job with those two scenes that I
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mean even that and then you get that scene later with the the 360 scene that whole thing look at the sound design in
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that it's just it's amazing i can't believe they didn't win an Academy Award for this movie for all of that yeah and
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and you know what's funny um on the Scarface Caro's Way episode I talked about depending on what you know what
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side of the fence you're on you know Blowout's definitely a masterpiece and Carlo's Way is probably another
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masterpiece but I think if you really start weighing the two against each other this one was written by DeAma
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which I had kind of forgotten about when we had the the when I had my discussion with Brian Sword but I was like you know
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what I mean if you're really going to make an argument written and directed by Brian Dealma and again I it's
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interesting because like you said how would any other director have handled this sequence but uh I really wonder as
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the writer of this how much the Palama actually committed to the page versus just knowing what he was
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going to execute well it makes you wonder if he was just storyboarding the movie as he was writing it you know like
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cuz there's so much thought that went into this you don't just sit down and go I'm going to have this this this and this the way that it is cuz it's just
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every time that there's a sound the shot changes and it's it it's so like just
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everything is so thought out on the page and he thought out every possible thing and using the trick c the the trick
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lenses and stuff like you were talking about where I was like I didn't even know what it was called because there's not very many examples of this where you
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see it this fluidly in a movie normally you know he's known for the split screens and everything else and there's
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I there's some of that going on here but like unless you really it's like trying to figure out the Kubric you know how
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did he do the shot over the maze with the with the people running and it's you know it zooms in on the maze and all of
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a sudden there's people where you try to figure out how the hell did he do that and I still don't know how he did it but I don't want to know like the uh Fincher
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is another one that does all this type of stuff David Fincher is just a brilliant you watch Fight Club and
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there's some scenes in there that remind you of Palma as you're watching it you know where like he's going the the
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building and it goes through the floor and you can see there's like mouse nest yeah I think Fincher is probably the the
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best modern filmmaker you can use it as an example when people start [ __ ] on
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like CGI and it's like well CGI is as bad as the artist that is using it exactly and
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you know you know you talk about the amount of FX shots in a movie like um Zodiac
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people won't believe you but it's like yeah that's an FX heavy movie the building scene where he it's like a
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montage of the building getting built that is there now and famous that is a master at work on everything he does
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from Alien 3 which I will get in a fist fight on to whatever I haven't even I don't have Netflix I don't know what
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he's doing now but that Mine Hunter stuff like brilliant [ __ ] yeah even even
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the killer was I haven't seen it yet so really really interesting interesting watch so I I know we're we're getting to
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the tail end of things is there anything you had noted that you wanted to address that we didn't sort of hit in our conversation
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no I I I love the fact that he's finally getting some love i mean it's taken me a
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while to appreciate him i think it's as I've gotten older I started to appreciate his movies where when I was
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younger it was like you've got like Scarface and Carrie and a few of those and now you're going into the backlog
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like I told you I've never seen Carito's Way mhm and there's a couple of them in here that I haven't seen um the only one
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I've really ever seen that I was just like I do not like this is that the black dolly emerg no it's in a movie i I
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I don't ever plan on talking on this podcast and I think that's part of being a fan
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of somebody is I know it's short for fanatic but you don't have to like everything the artist did one thing I
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did want to loop back to though is when you were talking about preparing and as a big Hitchcock fan it wouldn't surprise
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me if Deama had plotted out everything he was going to do because if we know
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how Hitchcock worked uh there's a lots of stories about Hitchcock being bored out of his mind on set because he was
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already thinking about the next movie he was going to work on because in his mind the movie was done yep i've read that
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too long yeah so uh this was really cool i'm sure we're going to come back and talk about Blowout um several other
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times on this show but I do appreciate your perspective and uh I think we got to talk uh a really sort of meaty
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sequence so before we go if you want to talk a little bit about the podcast you do with Scott and then more importantly
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if you want to talk about Scareflare Records um so I do um Scott was on here
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earlier one of your episodes where he does the Church of Tarantino for season 3 we actually have three seasons of this
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show called Englorious Blue Balls and we discuss all of the films he didn't even
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mention it when he's on there like like I'm nothing to him apparently um we talk about all of the teased projects that
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Quinton Tarantino has blurted out and talked about over the years or people have reported on that he's never done
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giving all of his fan base blue balls about the Vega brothers and Kill 3 and all those movies that he's bullshitted
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and talked about that never happened so we go in and we cast it we talk about the music what the film would be shot
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like what we think he would do with it um we give the news that's been about it and everything like the movie critic was
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canceled we had like a show within like 3 days and it was on you know so like that's what we're doing i will be
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starting a podcast actually after kind of what you're doing but I will be doing as a sister one to the church of
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Tarantino the church of carpenter where my passion is John Carpenter besides Tarantino to talk about the films of
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John Carpenter i just need time to get to sit down and work on it and then on the side like I do horror cons a lot i
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sell vinyl records and I own a small record label that has put out we did um
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Frank Lagia's Lady in White we did Terry Gilliam's Time Bandits for the first time on vinyl i did uh The Grand Duel
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which is some of the music that was used in Kill Bill that had never been out on vinyl we actually hit it on its 50th
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birthday for release so we do stuff like that i'm all over the place if I like it I'll do it we did like the fan film uh
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Never Hike Alone which is part of the Friday the 13th stuff but I mean it sold really really well for it being a fan
27:37
film you would have never guessed that it was so I don't know if anybody hasn't seen it it's really good and if you're a Friday the 13th fan so yeah excellent
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and I'll include a link to to all of that uh and where people can find you in the show notes here and I just want to
27:50
say that I am so on board for the Carpenter show for a long time he was my
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favorite filmmaker and I I'd still argue with anybody that the run from Halloween through They Live No you got to go back
28:02
dude assault on Precinct well yeah but I'm just saying if if the that run uh even Elvis he did an Elvis interview
28:09
with Russell uh Kurt Russell is just unreal how good it is i think it's I
28:14
think that run of films is untouchable i I really think that no film other than Tarantino Mhm other than Tarantino
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there's no Maybe Spielberg because I mean you can't really put Lucas into there or uh Coppola had some real
28:28
horrible movies but yeah like that's and that's why I was attacking that one because I love those movies so much i've
28:34
seen them so many times and no one's really no one has got a podcast about it i even had the guy that did the Texas
28:40
Chainsaw Massacre the shocking truth vinyl release that I did it's a documentary about Chainsaw Massacre he
28:46
did an uh John Carpenter theme song for me and everything for it i just need time to sit down and record all this
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stuff so like I actually have like original theme music from a real film composer it's like I just need time and
28:59
I don't it's something I don't have so yeah well I will volunteer myself and and I I say this to anybody that wants
29:05
me as a guest i am not afraid of any Carpenter movie so if you need to fill a gap in his filmography and there's a
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film nobody else wants to talk about even if it's the ward I I saw that in theaters i'll be there man i'm hope
29:18
hopefully going to do one a month and then I picked his 12 best and then season two will be the leftovers and
29:23
then maybe like I think I'm going to follow Scott to make fun of him and I'm going to do like a whole season just on Halloween or something if I can get that
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far into it just to to be a smartass but Oh nice well hopefully you find the time
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to do it i think a lot of people that don't podcast don't entirely appreciate how much actual work goes into it not
29:42
only do you have to watch a movie you have to sort of maybe watch the movie more than once in the short period of
29:48
time take as many notes as you think you're going to need to uh express yourself sit down and record it and then
29:54
after you're done recording you have to edit it and clean it up and make it nice and presentable for all the people that are going to listen well and I suffer
30:00
from like I got a little bit of autism so like for this I watch that scene I think five times i'm not going to come
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unprepared like Yeah so I'm overly meticulous as well and
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that this takes time and stuff so any that and if anybody ever needs a guest to come and talk [ __ ] about movies hit me up so yeah excellent well I I do
30:18
appreciate all that that prep work you did because it makes my job easier and I hope we can sit down and chat either
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Carpenter or even uh Depama again at some point so uh Sean thank you so much and uh we'll talk again soon yep thank
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you