The Director's Chair Network

About Last Night - Film Review and Discussion @RetromadePodcast.mp4
All right, everyone, here we go. Finally, I know, here we go, the first episode officially of our podcast, Ed's Wick Podcast, and I'd like to thank everyone who's joining me for this journey of the Ed's Wick Films.
The goal will be to have one episode out per month, minimum, that's the word, minimum, so at least one episode out per month, so we're going to do it right now, we're starting now, here it is, about last night.
So this is kind of the intro to the episode because the episode will just kick off right away, I was unsure of at the time of this recording that I did with my lovely guest co-host Katie as to what the show itself was going to be called, so that's mentioned in the recording, what the release schedule would be like.
As of right now, Ed's Wick has 13 studio films that he directed for theater release, and that's the journey I'm going to go on regarding Edward's Wick and his filmography.
So anyways, so this is it, here we go folks, we covered the first film about last night, at the time of this recording, I have a couple weeks from now that I'll be doing Glory with my next guest co-host, and so you know, give it about a month at the max between recordings.
So you're listening to this now, I don't know when you're listening to this, just check out the podcast feed, but you get the point, for our first time listeners, thanks for joining me on this journey.
I really hope you appreciate the show, what we've happened.
So without further ado, here we go, Edward's Wick, Wick Flicks, the Wick, Wick Podcast.
Here we go folks, thanks everyone for joining us, I appreciate it.
Well, I'm very excited to have with me today, talking about, about last week.
Last night. Katie, how are you doing today?
Wonderful, how are you?
I'm doing very good. So for our listeners, of course, I would suspect that there's a good handful of listeners, Katie, that are listening to this first inaugural episode of Edward's Wick and his filmography podcast, that don't know who you are, don't know who I am, there's a good chance.
So Katie, why don't you say who you are in the realm of podcasting?
Well, I'm very excited to be the first guest on whatever you title this podcast about Edward's Wick films.
I get to spend every other week with you, Ryan, on the One More Round, the Rocky series podcast.
You and Kyle and I have so much fun breaking down the Rocky movies.
Big, big, big, big, big Rocky fan, obviously.
About a year ago, almost exactly, I started another podcast about retro and nostalgia, and it is called Retro Made, your pop culture rewind.
And my first season, which I, there's lots of movies in the first season.
And I have dubbed Patrick Swayze and Kurt Russell, the ultimate everyman.
So it is a look back at their movies from the 80s and 90s with pop culture references of the time the movie came out thrown in.
And you have been gracious enough to guest on my show a couple times.
Thank you.
Well, you're very welcome.
And great summarization of what you do on in the podcasting world.
Yeah, we have a great time.
So if you're listening to this series and you happen to be a Rocky fan, check out the One More Round podcast.
Or if you're a retro 90s type individual who likes these movies from the 80s and 90s, well, check out Katie's Retro Made podcast.
Exactly.
Because, Katie, the reason why I asked you to be on this first episode of this journey with Edward Zwick is this film just falls right into your genre of retro.
Also, with the subject matter, I had to have a female.
Yeah.
I needed that perspective.
And I'm also excited that I don't think you've seen this film before.
I think I probably have, but I had very little memory of it.
Okay.
Like a cable rerun or something at some point in my life.
But this was my first real, like, I'm going to pay attention, especially as an adult, too.
You know how we have different perspectives.
Yes, of course.
You know, it's funny.
If you were to ask me, I don't know, actually four or five months ago, you know, what is Edward Zwick's first theatrical film?
I would have been like, oof.
I don't know if I know.
Now, what I found out, of course, doing my research, obviously, I wanted to see what his first film was.
I think I'd heard over the years, of course, he did this type of film and this type of work.
I talked about in my intro, my journey with Edward Zwick and why I did this podcast.
I don't want to repeat that.
I was really intrigued and excited to delve into this type of film that he did.
Quite frankly, this was the film he did before Glory.
It blows my mind because he goes from 1986's About Last Night to 1989's film Glory.
We're talking two vastly different projects and scales and scopes of projects.
I am not super familiar.
I didn't know he also directed Legends of the Fall or produced it or maybe both.
No, he directed it.
So there's that, there's Glory, there's this, and then My So-Called Life.
Did you ever watch that show, Ryan?
I didn't.
But he executive produced it, which means he probably helped create it and finance it.
He didn't produce it or direct it.
That's right.
He didn't direct.
Yes, that's correct.
If anyone is listening.
Jared Leto.
Oh, my God.
It's the MTV show from the 90s with Jared Leto, Claire Danes, AJ Langer.
I loved it so much in junior high.
Jared Leto is just a dreamboat in that.
So if there's any-
Sure.
Yeah.
Claire Danes is no such either for the-
No, no, no, no.
Well, she's amazing.
I love her.
She's great actress.
She's one of my favorite actresses.
I love her.
This movie, 30-something, that also was in the 90s.
Absolutely.
So he's a little seemingly all over, like, how would you classify him genre-wise?
I don't know if I can.
And that's what's fascinating about him.
I'm glad you brought all that up, so thank you.
Yes, he has his fingers in a lot of pies.
He produced films like Traffic, I Am Sam, some big films, Birth of a Nation in 2016,
the executive produced, some big films, Shakespeare in Love, he was a producer.
I guess as a producer for Shakespeare in Love, he must have an Oscar for that.
I didn't even consider that.
30-something was a series that he helped direct, write, executive produce.
He was a creator of it.
From 87 to 91, I hadn't seen one episode of that series.
That might be something to explore at a later time, maybe even do an episode-by-episode review of that show,
because he would obviously, that would be one of his big productions.
But he did it the year after this film came out, all about last night, which is very telling,
because what little I know about 30-something, I can see why he would connect the two type of projects about adults.
A natural progression, yeah.
Right, you know, the adult discussions, relationships, the heartbreaks, the triumphs, and all those things.
I suspect the show 30-something explored those.
Now, he did do another show that he was a director, writer, executive producer, and creator of,
called Once and Again, that ran from 99 to 2002, that I specifically watched.
At this time, I would have been 24 when that came out.
I specifically watched this series and quite enjoyed it, because I was, this time, an Edward Zwick fan.
Oh.
Yeah, having seen, yeah, Legends of the Fall, Courage Under Fire, The Siege, and, of course, Glory,
those are the big films that I saw, all those in the theaters.
Having seen those movies, he now does a television show.
I'm like, yeah, dude, I've got to watch this guy's television show.
And I quite enjoyed it.
It was a really weird, quirky show in its own right, but I loved it.
It's called Once and Again.
But yeah, just talking about these Glory days, so to speak.
Yeah, these are things that he had been a huge part of at this time.
Are you familiar with Family?
I was looking at the IMDb.
It's like his first listed, and he directed.
It's a TV series from 76 to 1980.
It's crazy.
It wasn't just like a one-hit, not a one-hit wonder, but it wasn't just a single season.
Yeah, not the first three.
So he didn't create the show.
But I think he did some work in that show.
Well, I probably did this mind show that I am reading his book that he wrote, obviously.
It's a biography called Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions.
It's fantastic.
In fact, the reason why I started this podcast is because I started reading the book.
And I was like, man, I kind of want to do the journey with them.
So when I got to about last night in the book, I stopped reading until, yeah, I want to do the journey as he does it in the book.
And I thought that might help listeners.
Does anybody else?
Yeah, I thought so.
I hope so.
But it's funny.
I've already read about how he got this far into his career, and he talks about his time on family.
And I already kind of forget.
It's so much information.
Basically, connections he made, the experiences that he had, that he was, long story short, he was offered the chance to do this movie about last night.
So one of those things, actually, I thought, do I do his TV movie?
He did do a TV movie that he won an Emmy for, I believe.
He directed, wrote, and produced it called Special Bolton in 1983, so three years previous.
I thought, no, for this, it is going to be a limited podcast series, because one episode will be one film, period.
Unlike the Rambo films and the Rocky films that I cover in another podcast, no, I'm not doing multiple episodes on one film.
This will be just one episode, one film.
So I guess 13 films is what he's done for feature films.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
All right.
So about last night, Katie, you saw it for the first time.
I want to hear your overall thoughts.
What are your overall thoughts about the film and your experience with it?
Firstly, this might surprise listeners.
I am a woman that does not – I do not typically like a rom-com.
Romantic comedies are not my jam.
I find them annoyingly unrealistic.
Sure.
There's a formula, and I think I get sick of that.
But I will say that this one, while it is – I would classify it as a romantic comedy, dramedy.
Dramedy.
I was going to say, no, I think dramedy is better.
It's not romantic comedy the way, let's say, You've Got Mail is.
Right.
If Rob Lowe wasn't in it, I probably wouldn't have been as jazzed to watch it.
So that's a draw for the ladies.
And to me more, they're equally gorgeous people.
So you've got two gorgeous people.
And then the supporting – like their respective friends are funny.
Elizabeth Perkins, she's great in this.
Great actress.
I wanted to bring those things up in that it really helped me.
I did like this movie quite a bit despite it being a rom-com because I think that the actors brought it.
And there was a draw for whether you're a man or a woman.
There's somebody pretty to look at.
While it had all of the beats of your typical romantic comedy, dramedy, it felt much more realistic and relatable.
There were so many parts of this movie that I found relatable too.
Everyone has had these exact experiences in similar ways, and I very much enjoyed it.
I appreciate that.
That's wonderful.
I too was a little bit like, ooh, I don't know.
It's an 80s relationship film.
I don't even know if I could classify it as a romantic comedy or even a romantic – I'd say dramedy is probably the best way.
There's certainly humorous parts to it, but the way you'd find in any kind of typical drama show on TV, whether it's even ER or it doesn't matter.
There's still some comedy beats or lighter moments.
There were very few moments where I truly kind of would laugh out loud, but I got a kick out of it.
Of course, it came from the James Belushi character.
Yeah, I was surprised by how good the film turned out for a first feature film from basically a TV director or somebody who only worked in TV at this point in his career, a young guy at the time, dealing with some big personalities.
And we've got a story from his biography that we'll share later about one of those personalities.
Everyone put together a very good film.
Now, it's a little long, and I don't mean long as in bad, but I was surprised by the length.
It's just shy of, what, two hours?
Yeah.
An hour and 45, hour and 50 minutes.
But there's not any scene that's really a throwaway scene in the sense of there's a story – you could almost make a two- or three-part miniseries out of this.
You could almost see how – you could kind of get why Edward liked the TV format because he was – yeah.
You'd be able to – not drag out, but play out character arcs and storylines.
So he really put a season one of a season almost into one movie.
That's kind of what I – I felt like this was a TV movie in a sense or a really long pilot to a TV show because it was just grounded, realistic.
It was a feature film, yes.
You could almost say it's like a two-part opener of a series.
You could almost continue with these characters.
Really good way of putting it.
I also wanted to point out one of the things that helped me really like it is I am a big fan of the city of Chicago.
And it is set in Chicago, and they use the city.
It's a character.
I like it.
Well, these old films, we don't see this anymore, Katie.
No.
Like, this is 86.
We are seeing Chicago as it was.
There's no set pieces or designs.
This was the 80s.
The set design, the costumes, the outfits they were wearing, the way the city was.
And I believe Edward Zwick was from there, and he was shooting from parts and places that he knew.
Elizabeth Perkins, this was her first feature film.
She did plays in theater.
She had an apartment in the area as well, so Edward and Perkins would hang out together and chill together.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah, very cool.
I suspect Jim Belushi is also, he seems very Chicago-y.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
Definitely, you know, from New York to Chicago, Jersey, whatever, that whole eastern continental U.S. feeling that Jim brings.
Now, we're going to get into the cast for sure, but before we get into the cast, let's just do a quick synopsis of what the plot is.
Here you go.
So, in Chicago, Danny Martin, played by Rob Lowe, and Bernie Lickle, played by Jim Belushi, are friends who discuss their sexual escapades.
Do you want to give it an overall discussion about that whole, the talk of sex throughout this film?
I almost wish I was born a little earlier.
This seems like the best time to be having these escapades.
It's very mid-80s, you know, they're young, 20-somethings, although Jim is actually, like, quite a bit older than him.
He's a doctor.
Broad as a term.
That I found hilarious, but it's also mid-80s, and Jim keeps saying, broad, broad, broad, broad.
And you don't hear that term anymore.
It's just, they're carefree, single, 24-year-old people having sex with people, just living life there on their own, independent.
It's that.
So, I'm like, oh, that seems so, like, fun and carefree.
Yo, I was 11 when this film came out, so I didn't quite experience the sexual escapades one would experience at 11, though I hope not, at this time.
But I do remember that time, obviously, I was, like I said, I was 11 years old in 86.
I guess what I also like about this time was I was a big movie watcher at this age.
So, between 11 and, you know, 16, that era, well, between 11 and 20, I was renting videos for Blockbuster, VHS tape, like, by the dozens.
This film escaped me at the time.
But I love this time of movies, just the dialogue.
It should be offensive in the sense they wouldn't write this dialogue today.
The way they were talking about the fairer sex between the two guys, this is how men spoke.
This wasn't even written to be shocking.
You wouldn't say the things that they say today.
Like, I would even, I would be hard-pressed to find anyone speaking this way about girls.
But back then, this is how you talked about the broads, the chicks, you know.
So, Danny, again, played by Rob Lowe, meets Debbie Sullivan, who was played by Demi Moore, at a softball game.
And they begin dating, eventually moving in together, despite never been in a serious relationship before.
They're either one of them.
And then they navigate the ups and downs of cohabitation, including a pregnancy scare and issues at work.
And their relationship becomes strained.
So, Danny, again, she rides away on her bicycle.
Danny chases after her, hinting at a renewed relationship.
So, that plot alone seems sort of, is that empty?
Does it seem like not much?
Well, that's kind of the plot.
But what's amazing is we see a year in the life of this boyfriend, girlfriend, and their respective friends within this relationship.
So, let's get into the characters.
Because when we talk about the characters and the actors who played them, this will bring up, of course, talking points regarding the film.
First off, we have, introducing to the big screen, we have Elizabeth Perkins.
Who I'm sort of familiar with when I saw the name, I was like, Elizabeth Perkins, I know the name.
But when I look at her actual credentials, she's one of those actresses where, oh, I've seen her there.
I've seen her there.
So, I'll tell you my history with her.
She was in the movie Big with Tom Hanks.
Yeah, big one there.
That was in 1988.
Then, of course, she played, which I saw this in the theaters, The Flintstones, 1994.
She played Wilma.
Oh, did she?
Yeah, okay.
Another film that I would have seen her in was 28 Days with Sandra Bullock.
She played the voice, Coral, in the show Finding Nemo.
I saw that in the theaters.
She was in The Ring Part 2.
I saw that film.
But again, these are films I saw her in, but I didn't know this is like, she's been one of those people who has been in those things throughout watching films.
But she had a big role, one of the main cast roles, in the very popular TV show called Weeds.
I loved that show.
Did you watch?
It's phenomenal.
It's very good.
It has been on my two watch lists since 2005 when it premiered.
It's really good.
Because I love Kevin Eelan.
I forgot he was in that.
Yeah, I love Kevin Eelan.
I think it's great that he's in that.
I find the main actress who's in that, her name is Mary Louise Parker.
I think she's adorable.
It's a TV series that I've always wanted to watch.
So she's in that, which I think is fantastic.
Some other TV stuff she's done that, again, that I've seen her in.
She was in a few episodes of This Is Us, which I loved and watched.
She was in a show called Barry on HBO, which I love.
Yeah.
So this is what I mean.
She's just there.
So this was her start.
Again, she played the best friend and roommate at the beginning of the film to Demi Moore's character.
What did you think of Elizabeth Perkins in this film?
She out-acted Demi, by far, I thought.
Well, she had this experience in theater, don't forget.
But yeah, she did great.
She was really – I thought her acting was really good.
And she played a believable best friend.
I quite liked her in this.
Oh, I loved her.
I thought she was fantastic.
And I hate to say that she out-acted Demi.
I don't think that's unfair to say that.
But it kind of breaks my heart to necessarily say that.
I think that just maybe comes from her experience on the stage.
It might have helped her a little bit.
Not to say the stage is a better acting.
But sometimes these theater actors and stage actors might come from a – it's a little bit of a stronger acting prowess maybe than a film actor.
I think the rigorous schedule and the memorization of lines because you're out there live, right?
You have – yeah.
But she had a great natural screen presence.
The only flaw, and it's not her fault, was her hair was terrible.
Her hair.
Oh, God.
I know.
Because Demi had lovely hair.
Demi's hair was fine.
It didn't look like 86.
You could almost pull it off today in 2024.
But Elizabeth Perkins' hair, just like that perm, legal hair.
It screamed a 35-year-old mom from the 80s.
Yes.
Yeah.
She's a pretty woman.
And they're very young in this.
So, you know, like it's not that hard to be gorgeous when you're 24 or whatever.
But I feel like they were like –
She's young, by the way.
Which is young for me.
Demi is supposed to be the sexy one.
I almost feel like they didn't want to have the best friend compete physically.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, if you're talking about looks, I still find Demi more sexier.
Well, yeah.
I mean, she's – that's – yes.
I agree.
I agree.
I just mean they maybe uglied up.
Maybe.
Maybe they gave her the perm.
You're right.
Maybe the perm was intentional.
I don't know what Elizabeth Perkins' hair was naturally before this movie.
Good point.
Maybe they permed it to make her more frumpy or librarian-like.
Frumpy, yeah.
Because she plays like a kindergarten teacher or preschool teacher.
Right.
So, she's established.
Yeah, she works with kids.
And her clothes are all Marmy-esque too.
Yeah, good point.
Yeah, she did great.
So, ages are important to me.
I'm going to do this throughout all these films that I do, especially these older ones.
I think it's always important to know their ages that how they were acting in this film,
especially the Rob Lowe-Demi.
Do you know what their ages were, Demi Moore and Rob Lowe?
No, but I know their characters were around 24.
So, they were playing older than what they were in real life.
Interesting.
Oh, that's unusual.
Well, here you go.
So, Demi Moore was 23 in this film.
Okay.
And Rob Lowe was 22.
Oh, he was younger.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, Elizabeth did great.
Loved her.
What did you think regarding her relationship with Demi when she became the girlfriend to Rob's character?
How did you think the friend was acting the way she was, the way Elizabeth Perkins' character was acting?
Do you think it was appropriate?
Did you understand it?
I'm glad that they portrayed...
They kind of portrayed her as, like, mean isn't the right word, but she wasn't afraid to verbalize her disappreciation for how Demi just dropped her.
She got a boyfriend and dropped her.
Right.
Like, immediately didn't call.
I know this was before cell phones, but part of the montage of them dating is showing, oh, they're falling in love, and so they drop all their other commitments, and that's kind of both of them do.
But that's really just very selfish behavior.
If you have plans with someone to just not show up, very rude.
She played sort of like a mom.
She was like, this isn't cool.
I don't appreciate how you're acting.
And a particular line, she says, you're acting like the girl in high school who drops her friends when she gets a boyfriend.
And Demi says, oh, don't act like everybody didn't do that.
And she's like, I didn't do that.
No, everybody doesn't do that.
So I actually really appreciated, again, that's a realistic thing, the friend being hurt by this.
Same old thing, Deborah.
It's the same old crap.
You know, I bet in high school you're one of those girls that just sort of dropped your friends like a hot potato whenever some guy would call.
Who didn't?
I didn't.
Of course, I didn't have a whole lot of dates anyway.
Don't pull that.
It's not fair, all right?
We have been friends for a long time because we don't take each other for granted.
I'm sorry.
I got hurt.
Guess I'm just a little too sensitive.
Yeah, that's a great moment of the film.
I agree.
And I guess there's a part of me, I'm a bit of a romantic.
I have done this where I fall in love hard and fast.
I totally relate to this.
But did you drop your friends?
Did you just like ignore them?
Ignore is a strong word, but I focused on the girl.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Especially when I was younger.
Obviously, I'm married now.
But when I was younger and dating, late teens, early 20s.
Younger.
Yeah, it's a young thing to do, I suppose.
I was like, the girl was everything.
Infatuated.
Absolutely.
It would drop everything for them.
But I would never disregard my friends.
Like, F you guys.
Like, we'd hang out as groups and stuff.
But definitely, I would spend all my time with a girlfriend.
Absolutely.
If I had free time, it was like, I would then check with a girlfriend.
Do you two have free time?
This free time because we should hang out.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So, let's get to Jim Belushi's character.
He plays Litko.
That was his last name.
It's funny that Rob's character, Danny, would always call his friend Litko, which was the
last name.
That's relatable.
I feel like guys do that, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
I think we do.
I think we do.
Speaking of pet names or nicknames, it was, yeah.
So, his name was Bernie Litko.
I guess Litko is a better name than Bernie.
But it was pretty interchangeable.
But a lot of the times when Danny would yell, Litko, he'd always yell, Litko.
It did bother me when this was probably the worst part of the dialogue about the characters.
Maybe this was done on purpose between Danny and Demi's character.
Debbie was the honey.
We call each other honey.
Now, I know that's a pet name that we do with each other.
But even me as a married man, I don't even call my wife honey very much.
I think it might be an 80s thing.
It's an 80s thing.
But I also thought it was very – I wonder if it was done on purpose because it was done
almost too much.
Like they would say, honey, honey, honey.
If you had a drinking game, you're trying to say it, honey, you'd be drunk by the end
of the film.
This is their first time in a real relationship cohabitating.
So, you think they were trying to be adult-ish about it?
Yeah, a little bit.
I think maybe –
Fair. Okay.
I think honey is very 80s.
I recall my parents calling each other honey.
Okay.
I think I like what you're saying there.
They were playing mom and dad a little bit.
They were trying to accelerate their adult life now.
Yeah.
Honey, honey, dear sweetie.
Yeah, fair enough.
Okay.
Jim Belushi plays Bernie Litko.
Now, he was pretty much an established – a lot more of an established actor.
His film just before this one was Oliver Stone's Salvador film.
I don't know if you've ever seen that movie.
I didn't.
Oh, that's very good.
Is it good?
Okay.
Yeah.
You know, it's funny that we're talking about – there's certain directors I really
love.
I almost wanted to call this podcast maybe The Directors and have like a series of like –
Well, that's your next one.
That's your next one.
No, I'm not even joking.
Oliver Stone.
There's certain directors that I watch their films because I like them as directors.
And then each season could be a director, eh?
The time is recording, folks.
I haven't titled this podcast yet because I kind of like what I'm doing here with this
because there's other directors I like too.
Another one that I like is Michael Mann, for example.
So there's certain directors that I like them as directors.
Yeah.
Do you have a favorite?
Probably at the end of the day, film for film, pound for pound, Quentin Tarantino gives me
the best entertainment.
Okay.
Yeah.
There's certainly stylings that I like that other directors that he doesn't do.
Like he doesn't do these type of epic type films like Glory and Legends of the Fall and
Michael Mann's Last of the Mohicans.
Don't get me started.
See, there's just – yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Jim Belushi, James Belushi, of course, the brother of John.
He did quite a bit of films at this time.
He was in Trading Places.
Salvador, The Man with One Red Shoe.
He'd done a lot of films.
He was certainly more experienced.
And he brought that experience to this film.
He perfectly played the type of friend.
You both want to punch in the face, but you're kind of glad you have it.
He's that – he was irritating to watch, but entertaining at the same time, which is what
– I think that was the idea.
At first I thought, oh my gosh, is this Jim Belushi being Jim Belushi?
Or is this the character or a bit of both?
Mm-hmm.
You get what I'm saying here?
Yeah, yeah.
I think he was loud and abrasive and obnoxious.
But then that was perfectly what that character needed to be.
Jim plays Jim.
Every movie he's in, he's – it's Jim a little bit.
He's never like a draw for me.
I'm never like, oh, I'll see this movie because Jim Belushi's in it.
But he really brings it.
I very much enjoy Jim Belushi.
He's kind of one of those – he's sort of like Elizabeth Perkins in that they always bring good performances.
They're never the main or the – they're the best friend.
They're the supporting.
But he's funny.
He's Chicago-y.
I thought it was great.
And he was able to, through his character, be – because we wouldn't like Danny if Danny were to say some of the things that Bernie says.
And we're supposed to like Danny.
Well said.
And it's funny.
I'm sort of semi-watching just because I have it on my Disney Plus account.
And I kind of like watching older sitcoms.
And I'm watching According to Jim, his sitcom.
And it's horrible.
But I watch it because I kind of am in love with Courtney Thorne-Smith.
I think she's gorgeous.
And I've always enjoyed her from –
Interesting.
From Melrose Place.
Oh, yeah.
She was –
And Ellie McBeal.
I liked her in both of them.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
So I've always enjoyed Courtney Thorne-Smith.
So I'm kind of watching it because of her.
She's been in a series that I've enjoyed before.
So I think – it's funny.
Jim Belushi, he's kind of irritating.
But I kind of don't mind it.
It's hard to explain.
And so when I watched him now in this earlier film, you know, 10, 15 years before he did According to Jim, I'm like, okay.
You know, this is just who he is.
This is kind of who Jim is.
It's okay.
Like, I think he's harmless.
That's the thing.
He's abrasive, but he's harmless.
He definitely has a bark, but he has no bite.
He's the sad friend inside.
He talks about – of course, the film opens up with very crass talk about girls.
It's over the top.
And the story goes on all night.
Like, it's oddly cut because they're in four or five different locations, but the same story continues.
It doesn't make sense.
I don't know if he caught that.
He's telling this long story about this girl.
And he exocupates about last night.
So the story keeps the same, but the locations keep changing.
And he's yelling the story on the subway, at the pub.
You're kind of embarrassed because you not talk a lot.
But maybe we all have that friend who talks a little bit louder than they should.
And everyone's like, I don't – can you not talk so loud?
Did you see them friendshiping maybe a little bit Elizabeth Perkins' character and Jim's character by the end of the film?
Did you see that coming?
Or is that too cliche?
That they kind of hate each other, but now they're like, maybe we're going to be friends or hang out a little bit.
It's the beats.
The friends of the two mains hate each other, and then they either end up together or they end – it is very cliched.
I did see it coming.
But was that a common meme back then in 86?
I don't know.
Like, was that a trope?
I wonder if it's all kind of borrowing from this or similar movies.
I'm sure there were similar movies much before 86, but –
Sure.
I liked it.
It was clever.
And what was good about it, we didn't see them kiss.
We see them say at the end of the film, you know, they're at the pub and say, let's have a dance together.
And Elizabeth's character smiles and says, sure.
You know, so even though they hate each other throughout the film, we see sequences like that.
At the end of the film, they're at least cordial and friendly with each other.
Okay, now let's get to Demi Moore.
Or Demi Moore, however you want to say it.
Now, here is an actress that I, of course, know very well.
I never have seen a film because she's in that film.
I've always found her absolutely gorgeous and stunning.
I've loved her raspy voice.
And that was one of the reasons why she got cast for this was because Ezwick and the casting department just loved her.
Her looks was one thing, yes, but they loved that raspiness in her voice.
That's a selling – she has built a career.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's built a career out of that.
Now, of course, she blew up because of Ghost.
But believe it or not, it was about last night, this film, that actually got her probably that role in Ghost.
Yeah, she was a Brat Pack member, as was Rob Lowe.
And they had done St. Elmo's Fire together the year before.
Was that a film before?
So, yeah, Rob Lowe and Demi Moore were both in St. Elmo's Fire just the year previous.
So, two big films back-to-back, yeah.
Yeah, I like her.
I don't have anything against her.
She's not my favorite.
I don't think she's, like, the best actress in the world by any means.
No.
But she's good, and she's beautiful in the voice.
That's kind of what has helped her.
I agree with what you're saying.
I don't – see, it's funny.
Is she Meryl Streep?
No, but, yeah, it's funny.
She doesn't have to be.
But I'll say this about this film.
We're seeing what they saw back then.
I think those early days, these early films, it's like anything.
You get the right script with the right director, and you're going to get a great performance on the people.
The first film I ever saw her on the big screen was 1992, six years later, A Few Good Men.
Oh.
You didn't see St. Elmo's Fire when you were a kid?
You know what?
I don't know if I've ever seen it.
Are you serious?
Yes, I'm serious.
Well, I hadn't seen The Belt last night.
Remember, St. Elmo's Fire came out in 85.
I was 10, and at this time, I'm watching Rambo.
Yeah.
I'm watching action films.
When I'm a teenager, I'm watching T2.
That's true.
And then, like, science fiction films and things like that.
So I don't know if I, as a teenage boy, I had to rush back.
Now, as an adult, I would love to see St. Elmo's Fire, and that might be another movie for another day.
I don't know if you ever do any RetroMade podcasts.
I don't know if you're going to have that.
Well, it is going to be, and it's definitely, it will be in a future RetroMade season.
Now, John Hughes directed a lot of the Brat Pack.
Right.
I've seen a lot of those films, of course.
Sixteen Candles, Breakfast Club.
So I've seen those films, funny enough, but not the St. Elmo's Fire version.
The same people kind of in a lot of movies in the mid-80s.
And so I kind of grouped them together.
Spoiler alert, John Hughes is going to be my second season.
Oh, fantastic.
But it's so 80s.
But anyway, St. Elmo's Fire and a lot of those Brat Pack movies, that's the types of movies that I was watching as a kid.
We had them taped from TV on our, in the Memorex thing.
Yeah.
The Meemore films that I watched and enjoyed, of course, were, so I saw A Few Good Men, and I watched a lot of the ones after that.
A Few Good Men of note, I believe that was her first film after her breast augmentation.
She looked fantastic in her Navy uniform, and you could tell that she was quite chestier than she was in earlier years.
I'm kind of bummed.
I liked that she was like, what did you think of her?
Well, we'll get to it.
We'll get to it.
Okay.
I just want to talk about her films first.
So then she did Decent Proposal, Disclosure, which I saw, The Scarlet Letter, which I saw, The Juror, which I saw.
So I saw all these movies, of course, Striptease.
And then she was G.I. Jane, which I thought she was great.
Great in that.
And then she had her normal 2000s that a lot of actors seemed to have at that time, a little bit hit and misses.
Of course, then the wife.
Now ex-wife of Bruce Willis, but they remain good friends.
And Demi Moore has been very lovely to Bruce during his hard time right now.
It's nice to see.
And I like that they've had a friendship despite their divorce.
Yeah.
It's nice to see.
So she seems like a cool cat.
So I like that about her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I was surprised about the amount of nudity in this film.
It is rated R.
Well, there's cursing.
No, the cursing alone is an R rating.
Okay.
I didn't even like radar cursing.
Well, it's a lot of Fs.
Yeah.
A lot of slurs.
Oh, yeah.
There are some.
And then just the gratuitous language regarding sex.
True.
This is not a teen film.
Yeah.
This is for young adults, adults.
This is an adult comedy.
She was the only one, right?
That we saw anything.
Rob got pretty close.
Close.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When he gets out of the shower.
Definitely.
We got Rob butt talk.
So we got.
Side butt though, right?
No, I think.
No, we had a full butt.
He got a call to me at one point during their multiple love sequences.
And there was.
There were some good love scenes.
Well, let's talk about it.
What are your thoughts on the lovemaking in this film?
Again, sometimes I'm kind of annoyed.
But again, these are both really pretty people.
So.
And I just thought it was really realistic.
Yes.
Like the type of sex.
The scenes to shower them.
They can't get enough of each other.
It's new love.
That's right.
I loved it.
They're young.
So they're 23 and 22.
Or their characters are 24.
But they're young adults.
Both gorgeous people.
They're having a great time with each other.
And that's the whole point of this film, Katie.
Is that they mistook lust for love.
Yes.
Good point.
But then.
Lust can turn into love.
It's the endorphin fix.
You know what?
The reason why people cheat.
It's not because they don't love their spouse sometimes.
Or their significant other.
It's that there is a true chemical that actually is produced that feels good.
Something new.
Or something else.
Something like that.
I don't know what it's called.
I'm not a dog.
A smarter blockbuster would have this ready to go in his back pocket.
But the reality is.
And I'm not condoning.
Or.
I'm just saying the reality is.
There's a drug.
And it's.
Just like when you smell pizza.
You want to eat it.
Or whatever.
You're thinking.
It's like.
Even if you're not hungry.
Something could smell good.
You're like.
Oh, it smells so good.
There is a little drug.
Called evolution.
That's how the human race propagates.
Because.
You want to.
Men.
Especially.
Because we're the seed spreaders.
If you want to get back to.
10,000.
Yeah.
100,000 years ago.
That's the idea.
It's like.
Imagine if sex didn't feel good.
We wouldn't do it.
And the population wouldn't grow.
It's like.
Oh, this is such a chore.
There's a real.
A chemical that happens.
When something new is presented.
Specifically to a man.
Where we chase after that.
So.
I say all that.
Because.
Yeah.
In this film.
They're absolutely in lust with each other.
But then.
They want to grow up very quickly.
Now we have to do the next thing.
Move in together.
You're here all the time.
You know.
They had a pregnancy scare.
What do you think of the pregnancy scare?
And the conflicting emotions of that scare.
It was different than I thought it was going to be.
I thought.
He was going to immediately.
Have like.
This sigh of relief.
Because she doesn't.
Let it linger.
She tells him.
But it's negative.
I'm not.
Or something.
Pretty quickly.
I feel like what's typical.
Is the guy.
Is like.
Whew.
And then that hurts.
Her feelings.
But he.
Doesn't.
He.
What does he say?
He's like.
How do you feel about it?
Or what do you want to do?
Or.
This is something I cannot relate to.
Because there is no world.
In which I would be happy about a pregnancy.
But I feel like.
Most women.
Even though it's.
Unwanted.
Or unplanned.
There is something that they are like.
Oh.
And then they're disappointed a little bit.
Even if.
Subconsciously.
So I think that's what happens.
She's a little disappointed by it.
Hi honey.
It's a weird looking pregnancy test.
Yeah.
It is weird.
Something wrong?
No.
It's fine.
Don't worry.
You're not a daddy.
I'm not.
Was I?
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
I was late.
And I was worried.
So I just checked it out.
And I'm not.
So relax.
I thought we were being really careful about this.
We were.
I was.
I am.
I was late.
And I was worried that I was pregnant.
But you're not.
No.
I'm not.
Oh.
Okay.
Great.
Yeah.
I was wrong.
Well.
Well.
Now I'm like.
You jerk off.
But I feel like.
In the 80s.
Like.
Clearly.
She's the one.
Responsible.
For the birth control.
So.
That annoyed me.
But I don't.
Is that what I got?
I just thought.
They said.
We were being careful.
And then.
Maybe she's on the birth control pill.
Maybe.
And he's not.
Yeah.
Or a.
Diaphragm was probably.
A thing.
That was a thing.
In the 80s.
So.
But she said.
We were.
I was.
I am.
So.
It made me think.
Oh.
It's on her.
Okay.
Fair enough.
I wasn't thinking those terms.
I was thinking.
Dan.
Well.
We should.
We'll talk about Rob's little character.
In a bit.
But we'll have to say this now.
I think.
What I liked about his character.
Was he's kind of.
He was.
Naive.
He's not the right.
He's very childlike.
And.
There's actually a sweetness to him.
Very.
Yeah.
Unlike his friend.
He's more sweet.
He doesn't really want to talk crass about girls.
He kind of lets.
Let go do it.
Jim's character.
He engages in it.
But he doesn't talk the way.
His friend does.
Even though his friend keeps trying to egg him on to do so.
There's a sweetness to him.
And I think ultimately.
Had she been pregnant.
He would have been like.
Okay.
What do we do?
He wouldn't have panicked and ran away.
He was relieved in the sense.
Like.
Okay.
We don't have to deal with that necessarily.
But he's like.
Oh.
Okay.
Well.
You're not.
Because we're being careful.
And then Demi's character was like.
Well.
Yeah.
I'm glad we don't have a kid.
And I think it's just that normal.
Had she been pregnant.
She wouldn't have been upset either.
But thank goodness they weren't.
Because it just would have been the wrong time.
You know.
They weren't ready for this yet.
There was a small part of both of them.
Where it wouldn't have been crazy.
Had this happened.
They were kind of in that state of mind.
Or stage.
Where.
Had a baby enter the picture.
They both weren't going to run away that moment.
I agree.
I was remembering it more.
So.
He was very clearly relieved.
And I think that kind of pissed her off.
Because she walked away angrily.
He's kind of.
Okay.
Cool.
Nothing.
He was.
He was.
But she took it as like.
That's right.
Yeah.
He should have said.
Well.
Had you been.
We would have figured it out.
Honey.
But you're not.
So.
That's okay.
You know.
There might come a time.
In the future.
Where we can discuss that.
But we weren't discussing that right now.
But he just kind of.
Oh.
Okay.
Like a little kid almost.
Where she took it as like.
You don't even want to say anything about this.
And.
Yeah.
You're right.
So she was like.
Could we at least talk a little bit.
What it could have meant.
And.
He just didn't.
He just like.
Well.
Why is she upset?
Because.
We weren't planning on having the kids.
That's very.
The man and woman way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Men are about fixing things.
Women are about talking about.
What it could.
Yeah.
So.
There's nothing to fix.
As far as.
Daddy goes.
Oh.
There's nothing to fix.
We can move on with our day.
Okay.
Oh.
Yeah.
Speaking of Demi's nudity.
It was funny.
Because I've seen the movie Striptease.
And I've seen her.
Quite frankly.
She showed it.
What she looks like.
With the augmentation.
It looks great.
But.
It's interesting.
Seeing her.
All natural.
At the age of 22.
Which is so weird to me.
I feel so weird.
I'm four years.
You said.
She was 23.
She's 23.
I'm 25 years older.
Than her character.
In this film.
So it's kind of weird for me.
Like I'm looking at a 25 year old.
I don't know why.
That's weird to me.
As I get older.
Plenty of men.
Your age date.
23 year olds.
But.
I guess they do.
But I don't think I could.
Katie.
No.
No.
No.
No.
And I'm glad to hear you say that.
Yeah.
Like look.
She's very pretty and stuff.
But just.
Look.
She's the same age as my kids.
Yeah.
What do you have in common with her?
Yeah.
Nothing.
Nothing.
It would just be the sex.
Of course.
That's what men do.
And that's fine.
It's all consensual.
Knock your socks off.
Anyway.
So.
The point is.
She looked very young.
But she was very pretty.
And I kind of get it.
I'm not a female.
But I could see her as an actress.
Kind of being like.
They're a little small.
Whatever.
I don't care.
I think she looks great.
She's obviously.
You know.
She's young and fit.
She's always been fit to me.
More is always taking care of herself.
So good for her.
I think she's fine either way.
But I kind of get why Demi thought she might have wanted to do it.
And she did.
And I don't begrudge her for it.
They're not over the top size anyways.
So.
Well.
At the time.
At the time she did it.
I can see there being a lot of pressure for her.
This is 90.
She did 91.
She got the gun.
Competition.
And.
Which is weird to think.
That's something.
Five years after this film.
Yeah.
It's a little different now.
There's less pressure for women to augment their bodies.
It seems like that.
Yeah.
I don't hear about it anymore.
But the 90s was a big time for them.
Do what you want Demi.
But I don't.
I can kind of see why she felt that pressure.
But I really appreciate seeing natural women on screen now.
I will just say this.
A woman who is a small frame.
And very thin.
It's extremely unlikely for them naturally to have large breasts.
Right.
That's just.
That's the way it goes.
But when it happens.
That's fantastic.
You know what I mean?
They're more likely to be.
Sure.
Gain weight than later.
Like.
That's right.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
Yeah.
That's fair.
Look.
I get it.
If there was augmentation for men.
Who knows?
You know.
I understand.
There is.
I think.
No.
I think.
There is no real penile.
To be honest with you.
There is real.
Not that I've investigated this.
It's not the way it works.
For women.
It's pretty like.
What size do you want?
For men.
I think there's a whole other.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's kind of scary too.
Okay.
Okay.
So now.
We're saving the best for last.
But let's be honest.
Rob Lowe.
What's your history with Rob Lowe.
Before you saw this film?
I have always.
Been a fan of Rob Lowe.
Oh.
Okay.
From that shows.
What films?
What made you a fan?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I mean.
Just.
Brat Pack.
Rob Lowe.
I love him.
In St. Elmo's Fire.
Even those characters.
He's not that different of a character.
Actually.
From this.
Plays Billy.
He's just kind of.
A guy named Billy Hicks.
In that film.
Yeah.
I haven't seen St. Elmo's Fire.
And I still haven't seen Youngblood.
By the way.
Youngblood.
I was just going to mention.
Youngblood.
I'm covering on this.
Because Patrick Swayze is in it too.
But.
Yeah.
I grew up watching St. Elmo's Fire.
I grew up watching Youngblood.
I'm drawing a blank on some of his other things.
From the 80s.
Well.
Do you see him in The Outsiders?
Oh.
The Outsiders.
Yes.
Duh.
Oh my God.
Well.
He's really young.
That was probably one of his first roles.
He would have been 19.
He was probably only 19.
Yeah.
And he.
Oh.
He's just gorgeous.
And I posted actually a picture of the Outsider boys.
As kids.
When they were kids.
And you know.
Most kids.
You know.
When they get weird teeth.
And you know.
It's kind of.
Most kids go through an awkward stage.
Let me tell you what.
Rob Lowe and Patrick Swayze.
No awkward stage.
They were just gorgeous from birth.
Loved him in Parks and Rec.
Once he got older.
He started playing like comical.
Wayne's World.
I only knew of him.
Because he's Rob Lowe.
And of course.
He had that scandal.
With the sex tape.
Oh.
I forgot about that.
Oh.
How could you forget about that?
Well.
I feel like I was.
Maybe too young.
To really make a big.
I don't know.
Okay.
So.
It happened in 1988.
So.
This was two years after this film.
So.
He was 24 years old at the time.
There was a sex tape.
It was because she was a minor.
Tara.
Who was 22.
And her younger friend.
Who was 16.
Oh.
So it was a 22 year old.
And they were videotaped.
So as of the age of consent.
Georgia was 14 at the time.
Both were of legal age.
To engage in sexual activity.
But 18 was of legal age.
To be involved in such a recording.
So it wasn't the sex.
That was illegal.
Oh.
Interesting.
He's known to have been on coke a lot.
In the 80s.
Yeah.
Sure.
Have you seen him?
I mean.
Everyone's throwing themselves at him.
Not that I condone.
No.
Dickhead.
But.
He was 24.
The girl was 22.
And they brought their friend.
Who was 16.
It was legal.
So the sex was legal.
So if you want to get down to brass tacks.
I'm not condoning it either.
Or condemning.
I'm not doing either.
I'm just saying.
They didn't distribute the tape.
They didn't sell it.
It was filmed.
Okay.
For personal use probably.
Because people.
Let's be honest.
A lot of people film sex.
To watch it later.
That's something people do.
They did.
But.
The filming was still illegal.
And I don't think it was like.
Designed to sell.
Or there was no internet back then.
So it was just.
Tiss, tiss, poo, poo.
So.
It was consensual sex at the end of the day.
That's why it's not a criminal activity.
In that sense.
But it was like.
Oops.
You shouldn't film her.
She's 16.
So.
There you go.
That was his big scandal.
I don't think it hurt him much.
I think it hurt the girls much either.
I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure they hated being with Rob Lowe at the time.
So that being said though.
With Rob Lowe's career.
Again.
I'm a teenager.
Why am I going to watch.
These movies that he was in.
And he was this guy.
Like.
But.
I saw him.
Outsiders though.
I'm.
Well.
I saw him the Outsiders.
But I didn't think.
Oh.
I got to watch it.
Because I actually like the Outsiders.
For other actors.
That were in it.
Like Tom Cruise.
Patrick Swayze.
Emilio Estevez.
Macho from The Crotty Kid.
The Dillon actor.
So all these guys.
I knew actually.
And Rob Lowe was the one guy.
I didn't really know.
No.
I think I knew who he was.
When I saw that back when I was a teenager.
But I liked him in the Austin Powers films.
Of course.
Yeah.
I forgot about that.
Like I knew he's an actor.
But it's like.
I got to see a Rob Lowe film.
He would just seem to be.
Just below an A-list actor.
If that makes sense.
Like I didn't really consider him to be.
Well.
He was in the 80s.
Yeah.
And then he kind of had to.
Fall from grace a little bit.
Yeah.
And then that was the problem.
I loved him.
In Parks and Rec.
Parks and Rec.
Oh my God.
No.
I love it too.
An easy job.
He actually is.
Again.
I think there's.
There's something.
And I think I do it too.
If somebody's really pretty.
Sometimes you don't take them as seriously.
As an actor.
I think he is like truly both.
Which makes you want to punch him in the face.
A little bit.
Also.
He is one of.
Only a handful of men.
That I consider to be.
If aliens came down.
I would like to show you Rob Lowe.
As one of the few perfect specimens of a human man.
He's so good looking.
That it.
It like hurts to look at him sometimes.
And my wife and I currently watch him.
And he.
It's cheesy.
But it's one of our.
Whatever shows.
The 911 Lone Star.
We watched that on CBS.
Or whatever that song.
Oh.
I don't know what that is.
He plays like a firefighter.
Essentially.
And.
Oh.
I know.
It's hilarious.
Oh.
Trans is his name.
He's a.
Put in fireman suit.
Bring it on.
So.
You know.
He's great.
And I need to watch the West Wing.
I never watched that either.
Something I should watch.
Even though it's kind of aged now.
But I do love politics actually.
So.
All that being said.
Rob Lowe loved him.
And what I will say about this film.
Since we're talking about this film.
But I suspect people listening to this episode.
Would like to know our thoughts on the actors.
Of course.
I was.
Truly.
Impressed.
With this young man.
He's 22 at the time.
With his acting.
The character they portrayed.
I thought Rob Lowe was absolutely.
Outstanding.
In this film.
Outstanding.
Glad to hear it.
I.
Yeah.
Do not disagree.
He has like a.
Couple podcasts.
Who doesn't.
But.
Right.
Like I think he's a great guy.
I don't know if I'm interested enough.
To hear him.
Mm-hmm.
Talk about certain.
Maybe the Parkinson's record one.
But I think he does.
But.
Yeah.
I thought he was.
Truly fantastic.
And I could see why he was.
Who he was at the time.
During these days.
These early days.
He looked great.
He acted great.
He played that innocent.
Kind of naive.
I'm just glad.
That by the end of the film.
It looks like they might be together.
Like.
Because it's like.
Are you crazy to me?
Well.
How could you.
And I get why Danny.
Couldn't let her go.
I would have been smitten by.
If I was 22.
And I had to be more.
As a friend.
Or girlfriend at the time.
I would have been smitten.
I would be like.
I don't want to let her go.
I totally.
Got behind all these characters.
I thought this whole film.
Was fantastic experience.
I thought.
Rob Lowe was.
Fantastic in this film.
And it's too bad.
He kind of had that scandal.
Because I think it did hurt him a bit.
In the career wise.
Same way that Robert Downey Jr.
With his drugs.
I think.
These early young.
Great looking.
Talented actors.
Both lived the lifestyle.
And kind of got hurt for it.
Yeah.
What a great start.
To the Ed Zwick filmography.
This film was.
Now.
We're going to get into.
Some of the audiobook.
Do you want to hear what.
Ed himself.
He narrates the audiobook.
Do you want to hear.
What he had to say about this film.
Not at all.
Okay.
Perfect.
Well that.
Rex.
Okay.
Well guys.
Of course I do.
Before we get to that.
The box office.
So this film.
Made 38 million.
At the time.
86.
Which is the equivalent.
Of 100 million.
Today.
At the budget of 8 million.
Which is about 15.
18 million.
So really it made.
You know.
Let's just say.
It was made up.
For 15 million dollars.
Today.
Made 100 million.
To the box office.
What do you think of that.
It's a hit.
Absolutely hit.
I haven't got to the part.
Of the book yet.
And I'm really interested.
To hear.
How in the world.
He was offered.
The movie glory.
I just don't get the segue.
So I can't wait.
To read that part.
Of the book.
And we'll get to.
The next episode.
Did he get to cast.
Did he get to cast.
Was it kind of like.
Already kind of done.
And they're like.
We need to drag her.
I don't know.
That's what I'll.
We'll stand by.
You'll have to wait.
And find out Katie.
When.
And guess Doug.
Our friend Doug.
Will be the guest co-host.
On that episode.
So yeah.
I don't know.
How that film got made.
How they got Freeman.
Denzel.
Broderick.
All these guys.
Oh boy.
Anyways.
I'm going to get.
That's how my Edwards journey started.
Was that film.
Okay.
What we see with this film.
What I think Ed did.
Was an amazing job.
With the character development.
With the.
The wrangling of his actors.
Getting these people together.
And having them have these real.
Feelings.
And really.
Relationships with each other.
On film.
Because I think that translates.
To the glory film.
Where you have all these.
Multitude of characters.
Again.
That you're able to.
Follow their storylines.
And feel invested.
With their characters.
Now.
Of note as well.
Some trivia here.
When Rob Lowe.
Improvised the line.
I don't love you anymore.
During a fight scene.
This part.
Caught.
Demi Moore off guard.
Since they've been in a relationship.
In the past.
So it was an improvised line.
So Demi Moore's reaction.
Was real.
Interesting.
Yeah.
That was.
One of my favorite parts.
Was.
Or favorite lines.
Was during that.
I felt it too.
Did you feel.
I felt.
Oof.
I'm sorry.
What?
I said I'm sorry.
For what?
What are you sorry for?
I'm sorry that it didn't work out.
I need some time.
What?
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
You know you started out real strong.
And now you're finishing like a wimp.
Why didn't you just quit while you were ahead?
Yeah.
That's what I'm trying to do.
Oh good.
Let's see your face on that one.
Do you mind?
Good.
Because I think we've been in the dark long enough.
I know why I'm leaving.
What's your story?
What killed it for you?
The radical change in your lifestyle?
Decided you wanted to travel light?
Oh come on Debbie.
Or is it just that you were afraid that somebody better might come along and you would be stuck
with me?
Look why can't you just see this for what it is?
And what is it?
What it is.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.
Oh what two people committed to screwing until they get sick of each other.
That's so great.
That's really special.
Look I don't want marriage.
I don't want kids.
I don't want to be tied down.
I'm not happy.
I don't love you anymore.
Fine.
I'm gone.
It's done.
And you can go back to doing whatever you want to do.
Whatever you want to do it with.
And whatever office you want to do it in.
Hey you leave here knowing one thing.
I never fooled around.
Not once.
Well let's just give the boy a medal.
Forgive me.
I love it.
Okay.
Boy so it's tough to turn it off.
That's a great scene.
Powerful.
Like you feel that fight.
I think we've all been there to some degree.
And that dagger.
Your trivia that you brought up.
That she didn't know was coming.
But that was really good acting.
She felt the dagger.
To hear he doesn't love you anymore.
Ugh.
The thing I really took note of.
And I've never really heard it put this way.
But it's really what dating.
Monogamous dating.
Is.
We're committed to screwing.
Until we get sick of each other.
I know.
I'm married.
And I'm not one.
I don't have any.
Words of wisdom.
Or any.
Whether you want to be married.
Or want to be not married.
It's not the issue.
But I said.
When it comes to marriage.
This is what I will say.
Because I've been in marriage for a while.
Like.
It's not about the sex.
It can't be.
The magic of that goes away.
So kids.
Life.
Bills.
Mortgages.
But I'm with my best friend.
Like.
Becky is my best friend.
And she's my partner.
And this is a real.
Life.
That's what I call them.
Life partners.
I want to be dead and buried next to her.
Type thing.
And when they're young like this.
And.
That's what he's kind of saying.
Like.
I don't want to be tied down.
I don't want kids.
I don't want marriage.
I want to.
Yeah.
He's saying that.
But he's almost saying that.
Because he feels like.
He can see himself with her.
And it's scaring him a little bit.
That.
This is it.
I've already found my girl.
For the rest of my life.
At the age of 22.
Or 24.
I want to live a little more first.
Sure.
I feel like.
What happens when people get married.
If that was 10 years later.
Or even five.
It was in the 80s.
So let's be realistic.
Five years later.
They would have got married.
I know.
It's about me.
The right person.
At the right time.
At the right time.
Yeah.
I think I have met people.
At the wrong time in my life.
I think if we look back at our history.
It's okay to say that.
I've met some great people.
At the wrong time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's just the way it goes.
Yeah.
A good representation.
Of realistic relationships.
So that was a big plus.
For the movie.
I love the smoking indoors too.
A lot of smoking indoors.
80s.
80s.
There was also a line.
Where Perkins character said.
Oh.
Danny doesn't smoke.
They're talking about the Thanksgiving.
Like Danny doesn't smoke.
So that's why she had.
Demi Moore's character.
Hadn't had a pot in a while.
But he was a smoker.
It was a weird.
Well.
She meant he doesn't smoke pot.
Oh.
I thought it just meant.
Smoking in general.
So.
Okay.
No.
Okay.
I've known Roger Debert.
At the time.
Gave the movie.
Four out of four stars.
That's high.
Yeah.
Now Demi Moore's character.
Sleeps with her boss.
And say.
Anomalous fire as well.
I took note of that.
I'm like.
I feel like she sleeps with her boss.
In every movie she's in.
Do you want to talk about the age gaps too?
So the actor.
That played her boss.
Now I know it's just the actor.
But again.
He was significantly.
Looked older too.
So I think he was.
37.
Yeah.
As an actor.
Yeah.
But he was.
Yeah.
He's mid 30s.
15 years older than the character.
But yeah.
Same sort of deal.
Like it's.
That type of.
Arrangement.
It's not for love.
Or you know what I mean?
Like when you're sleeping with your boss.
He's probably.
Quite a bit older than you.
And you're looking for something.
Out of it.
Other notes here.
Casting choices.
Phoebe Cates.
Addition for the role.
Debbie.
That went to Demi Moore instead.
Now.
I will say this.
I wouldn't mind seeing.
Phoebe Cates that naked.
All throughout the film.
I bet.
She's a little bit bustier.
I'm just fooling her out.
I'm just.
She is.
She's a little bit bustier.
But.
Funny enough.
I still think Demi Moore is a prettier face.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
Slenderer.
Slenderer.
Yeah.
Also.
This film was based on a play.
By David Mamet.
And it's going to come into play.
When we get into Edward Zwick's biography.
So we'll save that for later.
But it was based on a play.
Yeah.
Did you know that?
I read that.
Before we started recording.
But no.
I did not know that.
Outside of.
Okay.
Sure.
This.
Yeah.
Speaking of other casting choices.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Also auditioned for the role.
For Elizabeth Perkins character.
I could see that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
That would have been interesting.
Now.
There was a rumor.
That Demi and Rob's sex scenes were filmed.
Some of it could have been real.
I think that's fake.
I don't think that's real at all.
They just looked so comfortable with each other.
What do you think?
Do you think any of it could have been real?
Well.
I mean.
Real.
In that.
They weren't.
Worried about.
Bits.
Touching.
Sure.
I don't think there's actual.
Like.
Yeah.
I forget which actor it was.
But there was an actor.
I forget who it was.
But they were saying during one of the love scenes.
And they spoke to their actress.
And I think they either say this to every actress.
They do a love scene with throughout their career.
But the actor says so to the effect of.
I'm sorry if I get turned on.
And I'm sorry if I don't.
Who said that?
I don't remember.
Oh.
I thought there.
I thought there was going to be this big reveal.
No.
I know.
I got to find out who said that.
But I think that's a great quote.
Because.
It is.
Why isn't this man turned on?
He's like grinding on me.
Even though it's.
Simulated.
If I'm on top of a pretty girl.
Or one's on top of me.
Though it's just filming.
So that's what he's saying.
Like.
I'm sorry if I get turned on.
And I'm sorry if I don't.
I can see both happening too.
Because like.
I don't think it's.
I think it happens.
Super sexy.
Sometimes.
Especially if you're Rob Lowe.
You're 22.
You know what I mean?
Like.
I look.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Them.
For sure.
But I can see it also being like.
The most unsexy thing ever.
But my understanding with sexiness too.
They do empty out as much as they can.
Cast and crew.
It's just like the director.
Yeah.
I do buy that.
Rob Lowe and Demi.
Were.
Not.
Not into it.
You know what I mean?
Their armorous.
Kissing.
And like.
That could have been.
They didn't have to act too hard.
Is what I.
Yeah.
You know.
You're absolutely right.
The film's four leads.
Underwent two weeks of intensive rehearsal.
Including improvisations.
To strengthen their rhythm and timing.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
So without further ado.
Let's get into.
This is.
How old the episodes.
Are going to end folks.
Is we're going to get into.
Edwards with his voice.
Himself.
And hear what he has to say.
About the films that we're covering.
As we go through these films.
Here we go.
We'll comment on each.
Pause break.
And that will be the end of this.
Okay.
One day.
While filming about last night.
I got into a pissing match.
With Jim Belushi.
On the L train in Chicago.
I wanted him to begin speaking.
The moment the doors open.
That would help the timing work.
For some reason.
He kept waiting.
Until they closed.
I got upset.
We were running out of time.
We were losing the light.
And after each blown take.
And there were many.
The train would have to make another loop.
All around the city.
Finally.
I couldn't take it any longer.
In the middle of a take.
I yelled.
Cut.
Belushi turned to me.
And bellowed.
What the f*** did you do that for?
Because you didn't take my direction.
I said.
Why the f*** should I?
He said.
Refusing to back down.
Because I'm the f***ing director.
I yelled back.
Without considering.
What a stupid thing.
I'd just done.
The train doors opened.
And Jim stormed out.
Muttering.
F*** you.
I followed.
And as we stood on the platform.
Shouting.
You.
No.
F*** you.
The train sped off for another loop.
With it went the crew.
I remember the producers.
Horrified faces.
Pressed against the window.
As they disappeared.
Into the night.
Did I mention it was snowing?
The deserted platform.
Was suddenly quiet.
After a few more.
F*** yous.
We were running out of dialogue.
I stood there.
Snowflakes.
Blurring my vision.
Feeling lost.
And disoriented.
Is this how it all ends?
I wondered.
Was I going to be fired?
Was it possible my feature film career was over.
Before I'd finished the first week?
Maybe I'd never work again.
Suddenly.
I heard myself say.
Jim.
I'm scared.
If we fall behind.
I'll get fired.
Maybe they'll fire us both.
He looked at me.
Oh.
Don't worry.
He said.
I got you.
And he pulled me into a bear hug.
I buy it.
Like.
None of that is surprising.
I guess.
Story.
Oh.
I love that story.
Because.
I can see.
Jim Belushi.
Acting this way.
You know.
Kind of taking advantage of this young new director.
This is his first film.
And the director's like.
I'm trying to give you direction.
There's a reason why I'm doing this.
I'm trying to give you direction.
Yeah.
F you.
F you.
This.
I love that moment of.
Ed's like.
Dude.
I don't want to get fired from my first job.
Can you just.
Please.
I need.
And then he's like.
Yeah.
I can see that Jim.
And that's the Jim character.
Remember.
He's so gruff and weird to his friend in the movie.
And he's like.
Ah.
You want me.
I'm just joking around.
I'm just full of.
It's almost like.
That's Jim.
Yeah.
It is nice to hear that.
It took.
That little bit of.
You know.
Take the.
The shield down.
And then Jim.
Sees you for who you are.
And you know.
You're on a human level.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Next story.
From that moment on.
Jim was my greatest ally.
And his performance was brilliant.
To this day.
I don't know how I came to admit my fear.
As we stood cussing each other out in the snow.
I do know.
At that moment.
I learned something that served me ever since.
I had believed a director had to be an authority figure.
Okay.
That's the end of the first story.
There you go.
Now here's the second one.
About last night.
Turned out to be the right choice.
As a first movie.
Tim Kazerinsky and Denise DeClew.
Two Second City alumni.
Had written an adaptation of David Mamet's.
Sexual perversity in Chicago.
Now Tim.
The first screenwriter there.
That adapted the play.
We should have said.
Remember when Demi's character.
And Elizabeth Perkins character.
Went on those.
That double date.
During the breakup.
At the end of the film.
There's that other older gentleman.
That was really weird.
With Demi's character.
That's Tim.
The screenwriter.
Oh really?
Yeah.
He kind of looked dorky and weird.
He was also in the.
Police Academy films.
And on Saturday Night Live.
At the time.
Oh.
Yeah.
His name is.
Kazerinsky.
That's right.
Tim Kazerinsky.
So yeah.
He's got a very unique face.
And once I saw him in the movie.
I was like.
I know that guy's face.
He was on Saturday Night Live.
In the 80s.
And the Police Academy films.
So yeah.
He's been around.
Okay.
Kind of funny.
Yeah.
I love those little weird connections.
That he also.
Co-wrote this film.
That's weird.
It was also the first film.
For Stuart Okun.
And Jason Brett.
Two Chicago theater producers.
Who became lifelong friends.
At one point.
They had had Jonathan Demi.
Attached to direct.
Well.
That would have been interesting.
Jonathan Demi directing this film.
I don't know who that is.
My understanding.
He did Signs of the Lambs.
Oh.
Okay.
It was my good fortune.
That he hadn't stuck with it.
A profane comedy.
It was also about something.
I had wrestled with myself.
Not too many years before.
Trying to distinguish.
Between love.
And sex.
The story centered.
On two beginners.
Played by Rob Lowe.
And Demi Moore.
Trying to figure out.
The difference.
Jim played Rob's friend.
And colleague.
The production.
Wasn't especially challenging.
Mostly two people.
In an apartment.
On the street.
Or in bed.
But there were still many lessons.
To learn.
One day.
I arrived on the set.
Twelve minutes late.
My AD.
Took me aside.
Look around.
He said.
How many people do you see?
Hmm.
Fifty.
Don't forget hair and makeup.
And the guys outside.
In the trucks.
Uh.
Seventy-five.
And they've all been waiting.
He said.
Now multiply those.
Twelve minutes.
By seventy-five.
That makes you.
Fifteen hours late.
I've never been late again.
That's great.
I love how he put that.
I love it when.
Someone in that position.
Like a director.
He needed that.
Because that will make him.
A better director going forward.
Just that you aren't on this high horse.
To be humbled.
By the.
There's all these people.
And their time is valuable too.
That's great.
I love how he says.
He's never been late again.
That he learned a lot of lessons.
On this first film.
So even this first film.
Wasn't necessarily.
These big epic.
Sweeping films.
Like Legends of the Fall.
Or something like that.
These lessons would become.
What he could do later.
In other films.
In these bigger projects.
For sure.
Next story.
Rob turned out to have.
The same sharp sense of humor.
That's later served him.
So well in his career.
And he was a great straight man to Jim.
Demi was so emotionally available.
And the camera loved her.
Both actors were open.
And willing.
Especially given the nudity.
The scenes required.
It wasn't until after casting them.
That I learned Rob and Demi.
Had hooked up years before.
They had hooked up already.
He didn't know that.
Speaks to some of that comfortableness.
You were talking about maybe.
Oh my gosh.
Did you know that?
I didn't.
But it doesn't surprise me.
Like hooked up is different.
Than being a couple.
But.
Sure.
But they had seen each other naked.
A few times.
Yeah.
And that doesn't surprise me.
Like honestly.
I'd be more shocked if they didn't.
Because they're two gorgeous people.
That were running in the same circles.
Of course they got together.
And if they had a good time.
I would be all about that.
Like someone that I had a great time with.
Like oh.
Now you get to do this in front of cameras with.
Okay.
No problem.
You know.
Look at you.
No I mean.
You're such an exibisist.
Wow.
No.
I meant like.
If I were an actress.
Putting myself in that position.
Like you know.
Think back on someone.
That you had a nice time with.
And they're like.
You want to do that again?
Sure.
Yeah.
It's one less thing to be nervous about.
I guess.
Yeah.
But the director is always the last to know.
To further complicate matters.
To me.
It was the girlfriend of Rob's oldest friend.
Emilio Estevez.
Though they all knew such scenes.
To be more technical than sexual.
They were still a little anxious.
It all went surprisingly well.
Until an especially.
Passionate.
And athletic moment.
When Rob began to groan quite loudly.
As they pretended to make love.
Everyone looked away.
Embarrassed.
Trying to act like it wasn't happening.
Until we realized that Rob was groaning.
Because he had torn his ACL.
Pro that he is.
Rob kept acting.
Until I said cut.
The show as they say.
Had to go on.
What were they doing?
That he tore.
How did he tear his ACL?
I don't know if he tore.
It's unclear if he tore it previous or during.
Where's the ACL?
Remind me.
No.
I was thinking ankle.
But it's your knee.
It's your knee.
So.
Might have been the bathtub scene.
If you think about it.
You're kind of sitting in a squat position.
Or if you're cross-legged in the bathtub.
He could have like popped it or something.
Did you notice all the lovemaking?
Which I kind of like.
There was no lovemaking sounds.
It was all done underneath the song soundtrack.
Did you catch any lovemaking sounds?
I didn't catch any.
Now that you bring that up.
I don't recall it.
Yeah.
Good point.
So he was probably.
Oh.
Whatever.
During the filming of it.
But it was all cut out post-production regardless.
So.
I knew that piece of trivia before I saw the film.
Like I didn't catch any groaning sounds.
So.
I guess he groaned.
I love how there was a bearish crew.
I think.
Oh boy.
They're actually doing it.
So they're like.
Turn it away.
Like.
We should let them have their privacy.
But I love how he's like.
No.
No.
My knee hurts.
Or whatever.
He was actually in pain.
But he continued with the passion.
I love it.
Also.
Fun tidbit about.
I don't really remember when Demi and Emilio were dating.
I don't remember that being a thing.
But again.
I was.
I do remember that.
I do remember that.
And another Brat Packer.
So.
I mean.
That has to be hard.
I suppose they're actors.
And that happens.
But.
Sure.
Yeah.
Your girlfriend.
And your best friend.
Or.
Yeah.
Getting it on in a movie together.
Well.
Yeah.
I mean.
Emilio just has to know.
And his dad's Martin Sheen.
So.
This is part of the business.
Yeah.
Next story.
I was also lucky to complete the ensemble with an actress new to the movies.
It's both a risk and a mitzvah to hire someone for their first job.
But from the initial day of shooting.
Elizabeth Perkins.
Playing Demi's friend.
was as comfortable in a soundstage as she's been in the Steppenwolf Theater production of Lighty Breeze where I'd noticed her.
And the great work she's continued to do ever since has been no surprise.
All right.
So that's just a little bit on Elizabeth Perkins.
I just thought I would add that in.
Everything we thought of her was Edward Zwick agrees.
Using some Yiddish in there too.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what his nationality background is to be honest with you.
I should look that up.
I would guess that he's Jewish.
He might be.
All right.
So next story.
When I finished my cut, the studio seemed surprised by how much they liked it.
And our first preview scored much higher than anybody expected.
The only problem arose when newspapers all over the country refused to run ads for the movie,
which at the time still carried the name of Mamet's play, Sexual Perversity in Chicago.
Confusing perversity with perversion.
I tried to convince the marketing department this could prove to be a good thing.
But they told me to stay in my lane.
Not only did I have no leverage in the argument, but they also left me alone to shoot the movie the way I'd wanted and impose no notes on my cut.
I shut up and let them do their jobs.
And so the milquetoast title about last night, it was.
I think it was a good thing that they changed the name from the original, but I don't love about last night.
That's what Edward feels.
He doesn't like that either.
And it's one of those weird ones where, oh, look, they said the title of the movie in one of our pieces of dialogue.
It's one of those because they mentioned it a couple times.
Right at the beginning of the film about last night.
Tell me about last night.
You know, it's a little bit too on the nose.
And so, but I like how Edward was saying, though, they left me alone.
I got to make the film I wanted to make.
So they want to change the title.
Fine.
I got to make the film I wanted to make.
And it was the marketing department telling him to stay in his lane.
That's just reminded me of to me as an advertising, of course, every 80s movie.
I think it's what made me want to be in advertising because it is TV and movies glamorized.
It is not.
Plus, if she's 24, she had a pretty sweet job.
Like she's just out of college and she already has a pretty awesome job at an ad agency.
Yeah.
She said that she's making enough money for both of them.
So if you wanted to open up his restaurant, he could have done so and without any risk.
That's right.
He didn't like that because, you know, he's the man of the house.
Yeah.
86.
I would have been like, sweet, man.
Yeah.
Fine.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
And they did have a sweet apartment.
Her and.
Yeah.
I mean, in Chicago.
And that's a movie thing.
It was.
Yeah.
I know.
It's always better than what.
I know.
Yeah.
I think this is the last story.
The movie did well in its first weekend, July 4th, 1986, and just as well in its second.
In what I came to understand was unusual.
Attendance remained at the same level from one weekend to the next.
By the end of summer, we had far outperformed expectations.
That fall, we brought the movie to Europe and had our premiere as the midnight showing
an opening night at the Venice Film Festival.
Walking the red carpet on the Lido, it began to sink in.
I was a movie director.
There you go.
I love it.
Awesome.
Very nice.
Yeah.
I thought it's a good way to end each episode, I think, to hear the man himself speak about
his experiences on the films.
And I love how this is the first film.
He goes, I'm a movie director.
I love that.
He's like, this is it.
I've started down this path.
It's an exciting moment for him.
Yeah.
Well, that is it, Katie.
We have completed talking about, I'm not going to say breakdown, because this isn't about
breaking down the film.
People should just watch the film.
So we don't really want to spoil too much.
We want people to still watch the films, enjoy what we've enjoyed and why we've enjoyed
it.
But I think people would still benefit themselves to watch these films.
And if you haven't, I would recommend doing so, especially if you're listening to this
podcast, I suspect you're either a film fan, an Ed's Wick film fan, or a bit of both, or
just a fan of Ryan and Katie.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I recommend you watch this film.
Would you then, Katie, would you recommend this film to people?
I would.
One thing we didn't bring up is we get a young, almost unrecognizable Megan Mullally.
Thank you for it.
I actually have that tab up on my computer to talk about.
Yes.
Who is now the wife of...
Ron Swanson.
Ron Swanson.
Yes.
Yeah.
One of the funniest couples around.
They are.
They are.
I mean, she got really famous from playing Karen on Will and Grace.
Right.
Yeah.
And she's a lovely woman.
Very pretty.
But she plays like one of the bar skanks that's trying to kiss Rob.
But is still somehow friends with the girls, Demi and Elizabeth Perkins.
Yeah.
And there's also a very mini cameo, too, of a waitress played by Catherine Keener.
That's right.
Her first role.
Wow.
I did like the bar setting.
I just wanted to bring that up quickly.
The mother's bar.
That's kind of their home base.
I kind of liked that.
It's a central perk.
That's her central perk.
Yes.
We see like the passage of time in the movie.
This also to Zwick's credit.
They don't ever talk about time, but we see the passage of time via holidays and things like decorations and stuff at the bar.
My understanding was it was a year in the life of the couple.
So we see all the seasons, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's.
That's why the breakup was very apropos.
The New Year is the breakup.
Yeah.
A few months go by when it's baseball season again, which I guess is what?
April.
Whatever it is.
Probably March, April when the weather's good.
Do you play baseball again?
And time has passed.
And yeah, I love it.
Yeah, I really, truly enjoyed this film.
This is a great start to Ed Zwick's career.
Yeah, I'm excited to talk.
Next episode, yeah, is Glory.
And I'll be doing that with Doug from the Rocky Minute podcast.
I look forward to you guys, listeners, joining me.
Katie, say once again where people can find your Retro Made podcast.
Wherever you listen to podcasts and on YouTube.
Retro Made podcast, baby.
I love it.
Katie, absolute pleasure having you on this premiere episode of the series.
What it's going to be called.
Well, I'll have a title when it's released at the time of this recording.
I'm still just, you know, I wanted to talk about it before I even got the title, which is exciting to me because that's how excited I was to do this new project.
So thanks to everyone who's listened.
Check the show notes for an email if you want to email the show and all those good stuff.
I don't know if I'll have any other socials, but check the show notes.
The show notes will have everything you need.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
.
you
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you
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Thank you.